400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

Sup the villain is a nitty reg noob idiot who runs like 13/10/2 or so.

Thoughts on all streets appreciated. Cheers.

POKERSTARS GAME #xxxxxxx: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($2/$4) - 2007/11/25 - 16:59:03 (ET)
Table 'xxxxxxx' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: SoxnyRey ($207.55 in chips)
Seat 2: badbeaxbob2 ($503.10 in chips)
Seat 3: jaxetlee123 ($1036 in chips)
Seat 4: filxtofish ($710.05 in chips)
Seat 5: Paxaa ($382 in chips)
Seat 6: too eazy ($402 in chips)
Seat 7: xhwe ($622 in chips)
Seat 8: DumbNoob ($477.35 in chips)
Seat 9: Alpxxfxl ($482.40 in chips)
too eazy: posts small blind $2
jahwe: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to too eazy [As Kd]
DumbNoob: raises $8 to $12
Alxvxvfoil: folds
SoxcxcyRey: folds
badxcxcxob2: calls $12
xvvxvlee123: folds
fixvxvxtofish: folds
Paaapaa: folds
too eazy: raises $40 to $52
jassdaswe: folds
DumbNoob: calls $40
basadasdbob2: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js 5c 9c]
too eazy: bets $78
DumbNoob: calls $78
*** TURN *** [Js 5c 9c] [8s]
too eazy: checks
DumbNoob: checks
*** RIVER *** [Js 5c 9c 8s] [Kc]
too eazy: bets $272 and is all-in

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

I don't like it.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

CARE TO [censored] ELABORATE?

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

I don't know about the push on the river. What hand that is losing is calling? The king also brought the only draw. Thats a tough spot on the river, not saying I know anything thats better. Everything else I like.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

You usually have the best hand, but I'm not sure how often you're going to get called by worse.

It's ok as a range-merger I guess, but I don't love it. I think I'd check and expect to be good usually.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

after the flop it seems like villain's most likely holding is JJ+. i can't think of a hand that villain will call you with that you beat here. slight chance he calls you w/ QQ. better chance than that that he is slowplaying JJ imo

toxo exxy, why not use converter instead of copy and pasting and then throwing x's all over the place?

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

TBH I think betting the flop is a bigger mistake than betting the river

Betting the river probably isn't exactly a mistake, but its super super thin

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

Hmmm at lower limits I bet this flop every time, but if you are playing better quality players I can definitely see not betting here, most people won't be calling you light preflop.

I don't think that a cbet here is totally garbage though, what if he has something like 10s or Jacks? I think he probably has to think about calling here. I imagine kings or aces push it preflop, and maybe queens too.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

i would just make a suck bet, and call a push or fold to a push depending on how good of a read you have on his range to shove

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

Please describe the behavior of this "nitty reg noob idiot."

In a vacuum with only the stats 13/10/2, I don't like this. I feel the only hand you get to fold out is a very poorly played AA. Basically, you have a hand that is beating all the hands you'd fold out and losing to all the hands that will call you.

What are you expecting to see here that's losing? KQ? QQ? That's the top of the range that's losing to you, and I don't think they're calling, so he's certainly not calling with worse.

What are you expecting to see fold here that's beating you? AA? This hand would probably bet the turn. AK? Probably wouldn't call the flop. I also feel that all made straights and flushes will look you up here, and all sets that were bad enough to check the turn will still think they're slowplaying a monster, call you, and take your money.

Your hand is too middle-of-the-road in showdown value to do a play like this. You need to gain more than 50% equity here at showdown, and I just don't see it happening.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

i agree - it's hard to imagine anyone calling with a worst hand than AK here.

Though of course, it could beat a really poorly played set of Jacks. but not betting the turn on that board is well, bad, and with 13/10/2 stats, all indicaitons are that he would. What range do we put villian on here?

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

I think its standard tbh.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think its standard tbh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

I can't think of any hands you're getting value from with a shove here, so the only reasons to shove are A - to move him off a better hand which I don't think you're attempting, or B - to look like a bluff which gets him to call with QQ, which he prob won't.

The best options to me are A) value betting to get value from TT/QQ which would prob check behind on riv , or B) check calling to induce a bluff, or lose the least to better hand.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think its standard tbh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

because he doesn't have a better hand hardly ever and c/c sucks (and I don't really fold TPTK in 3bet pots very often and this isn't one of the few times that I'd want to).

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

why does c/c'ing suck?

does anyone really call here with anything < what easy hit on the river.

with that said, what is the mission of the bet? Make QQ make a tough call?

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think its standard tbh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

because he doesn't have a better hand hardly ever and c/c sucks (and I don't really fold TPTK in 3bet pots very often and this isn't one of the few times that I'd want to).

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't this create a reverse negative freeroll situation though? We don't have a hand strong enough to get called by a hand that would check behind, and all the hands we're losing to will bet big or shove anyway.

Are you just trying to head off a bluff from villain (or induce a hero call) with your own bluff? That seems really marginal to me. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

You can just say "meta-game" and I'll leave you alone. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

As long as you bluff here a portion of the time (which I assume your laggy ass does) then this is fine. He might convince himself to make a hero call with AJ/QQ.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

I think he an make some hero calls here given that eazy's range is pretty much AK or air in this spot with the turn check. I wouldn't really be surprised to get looked up by worse 1 pair hands at all. Also, I'm not too eager to check here and go to showdown or c/f as that line seems weak given my 3bet, cbet, shutdown line and I would like to be able to get value when I have a big hand the next time.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

CDL - what about check-calling any bet? does that hurt the metagame?

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

[ QUOTE ]
CDL - what about check-calling any bet? does that hurt the metagame?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it would help I think, but I also think it sucks for your win money game since he isn't really ever betting a worse hand.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

Given preflop his most likely hands are stuff like 1010-QQ, AK, AQ then AA-KK

Given the flop action his range is stuff like JJ-AA, of which there 3-JJ, 6-QQ, 3-KK, 3-AA and maybe 1.5-99 given he might fold that preflop. I think flush draws will generally be jammed on the flop and can be discounted heavily. Also maybe tt-calls 1/2 the time for 3 combos.

Now the turn is pretty key in how he would play his set range verse his overpair range. If he checks back his whole range the river shove looks bad.

He is always calling with his sets and AA which make up 8.5 combos 3-JJ, 3-AA, 1-KK 1.5-99. That leaves 6 combos of QQ.

C-folding may be the best play on the river.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

If he has a set then he really [censored] the hand up.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he has a set then he really [censored] the hand up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno seems ok to me.

Re: 400 NL - LITTLE HELP HERE?
 

someone explain how shoving is better than a value bet. You really think a 13/10 is making a 275 dollar hero call here with underpair?