Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

2/4 NL on FTP (6 handed)

BB: $584
SB (me): $712

Read on BB is that he seems fairly competent. A bit loose/aggro PF but not overly fishy. Havn't seen him make any glaring mistakes postflop. I am playing a bit snug but not overly tight. Not opening from BTN/CO as much as normal but still getting my fair share of raises in.

Please critique every part of this hand (well the two streets that were played). I think stacks make this spot a bit funky but maybe I'm just high....

Folded around to me in the SB and I make it $14 with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. BB raises to $54. I call.

($108) Flop comes J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

I check. BB bets $80. I raise to $300. BB shoves for $450. I call $150.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

Fold pre flop.

He probably did a stack-a-donk on you with QQ-AA?

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

Not sure how he does a stack-a-donk if I c/r him and we get it all in on one street. You sure you know what that term means in regards to the line it represents?

And don't be so quick to judgment that I lost....geez. But thank for your input on folding PF (seriously).

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

Preflop doesn't necessarily narrow his range down to QQ-AA...he's somewhat splashy preflop, and folded around to you two in the blinds, he could think your raise is a steal and could 3-bet with many hands

Sadly, I do think you're beat by his flop play..But i think you have the odds to call his 150 extra. There's a chance he shows down KJ, or Axs flush draw.

Just so i could know, could you PM me the results?

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

I don't understand why u don't just CRAI? i mean...do u ever CR to 300 and fold for 150 more? I mean...I think he knows that too.

but, I think I like a call on the flop and then play poker on the turn.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

i donk the flop, w/stack sizes induces a lot more and get it in against a better range than flop c/r imo

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

if he calls i check most turns

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

fold to raise pre, call flop bet.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure how he does a stack-a-donk if I c/r him and we get it all in on one street. You sure you know what that term means in regards to the line it represents?

And don't be so quick to judgment that I lost....geez. But thank for your input on folding PF (seriously).

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like i misinterpreted the meaning of that saying then. I just dislike losing 150bb's with AJ in a 3 bet pot.

It looks like your behind from his all in because he knows he has no fold equity.

I would also prefer to lead this flop as you have a better chance to induce a bluff raise. Once you check raise him it sort of turns your hand into a bluff because he has to fold any hands he could have bluffed with but continues with his overpairs/set and big draws.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

fine, calling can sometimes be better. just shove though

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

I feel if you get to the flop, there's no way you should fold..If you decide to call his 3-bet preflop, you can't be afraid to get it in with this. If an ace came on the flop, sure you would beat QQ or KK but, very possible he could have AK or AQ and beat you that way. And if you call and are behind, maybe you'll hit a set, two pair, or backdoor flush.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I feel if you get to the flop, there's no way you should fold..If you decide to call his 3-bet preflop, you can't be afraid to get it in with this. If an ace came on the flop, sure you would beat QQ or KK but, very possible he could have AK or AQ and beat you that way. And if you call and are behind, maybe you'll hit a set, two pair, or backdoor flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling 3 bets with AJ and then stacking off everytime we flop a pair is a pretty fast way to lose a lot of money imo.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

True, but what other hand to you really expect to hit? All i meant is that if you plan on playing into the flop, folding with TPTK is kinda weak. It all really depends on your read on the opponent. A lot of players 3-bet with a very wide range of hands, especially in position against a potential stealer.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

Just to add, folding pre-flop isn't a bad play at all either.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

DaveC101,

Patience with the results. they will come after some hopefully good discussion. Regardless though theyshould be meaningless. Rather try to reason out which line you like and why. What does each play represent and what are your motives in the hand.

Jamsym,

"Calling 3 bets with AJ and then stacking off everytime we flop a pair is a pretty fast way to lose a lot of money imo."

Who said anything about "everytime." Don't treat hands like this generically. AJ here in a BvB battle is different then if positions were different, ie. HJ vs. BTN or UTG vs. SB.

Stackinboxes,

I did c/r. Not sure what your post means.

All who say c/c flop,

How do you react to a club/Q/K turn? Also, is getting in the last bet here really that essential? I don't think either of us feels we have any FE (nor may want any) so why the focus on getting money in first?

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

josh,

preflop:

i don't hate the call but i think we have to figure to have a significant edge postflop. i'm not sure how often that occurs with these stacks, these positions, and this hand.

flop:

c/r is definitely not the "typical" line here. this is fine, of course, but i'd bet less to give him the impression of some fold equity. in general though i would not expect to get bluffshoved on on this board after putting in 1/2 his stack in a RR pot, so i'm not sure what sort of mistake you are hoping to induce here.

i would probably c/c the flop. if we get him to put in money bad here it's probably when we check to him. having a club and an overcard improves our equity against his various semibluffing combos and makes protection slightly less important

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

My analysis:
Preflop: Blind vs. Blind...his 3 bet doesn't mean QQ-AA at all. He may assume you're trying to steal and he tries to resteal, figuring he has position on you in case you do call.

Flop: Pretty dry...flush draw's there. You check and he bets out 80 into 108. Doesn't really narrow his range down. With you checking, do you think he would check behind with a set? or maybe QQ-AA? To me, looks kind of like pair of Jacks, or 99/1010. When you reraise him, he may figure he only has 150 left if he called and will end up having all his money in the middle by the turn, so he might as well get it all in with KJ or QJ (possibly the flush draw as well) and try to make a tough decision for you.

If the play made it to the turn and a club came, or a Q or K, i would definitely consider folding to a strong raise, lots of his range would hit two pair, top pair over yours, or a flush.

Sorry if my thoughts seem messy or jumbled, just thinking out loud here.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

I only call this pre if I feel really good getting my stack in on this board. I rarely call this pre.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

i usually fold pre
but if you are trying to get this in then i would donk the flop

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

Not sure about preflop.

I like the rest of the hand plenty.

Re: Which street is bad? All of it? None of it? Damn you good...?
 

I think I do agree with the majority here and a c/c seems like the best line. I guess I can get him to get in in with a FD but most of the time if the money is goin in, I'm probably way behind.

Does this mean that we fold to any turn aggression regardless of the card?

He had 88 for a set and smoked me by the way.