(NC) post on tone
 

back in the good old days when the 2p2 community was small, people didnt have 10 accounts 9 gimmick accounts, people who signed up didnt sign up to just post in BBV and B4L, we suddenly had a huge influx of people sign up due to the huge poker craze.

SSNL ranged from 2NL to 200NL. with all the new players coming in SSNL was the most trafficked site on 2p2. all of the sudden it got out of hand. everyone was so quick to jump down someones throat about hands and the tone of tons of peoples post were very crass and unhelpful to the community as a whole. we then had the split between uNL and SSNL and mods made it an effort to make sure everyone was respectful and brought meaning to their posts in the strat forums instead of just flaming someone for not being as intellectually brilliant as them when it comes to poker.

Ive noticed that this tone is coming back in so many different threads and it seems like a lot of these threads are filled with useless posts that serve no function other then raising someones post count.

here is a link incase you havent seen it or read it

posting guidelines


and incase youre too lazy to read it ill cut and paste a few blurbs out of it for you.


--flaming. Not allowed. Good natured ribbing amongst known posters is, of course, OK.

TIPS FOR RESPONDING IN HAND THREADS

--Be kind.
--Include the reasoning of your analysis, even if it's brief.

Bad: Raise more pf.
Good: Your hand plays best heads-up, but your preflop raise was too small to get the job done. Try raising to $6 instead of $3.

Bad: Push river.
Good: Pooosh. Villian likes his hand. You have the second nuts. If he's got quads, oh well.

Bad: You're too stupid to play SSNL. Try checkers instead.
Good: Bad on every street. 1/4-pot flop bet was purposeless, turn call was horrible given your odds, then you suckout on the river and get no value.

Bad: You can't call this turn.
Good: You can't call this turn because your opponent is WAY to passive to start betting here without the flush, and you don't have the odds to chase anymore.

Bad: Raise the flop.
Good: Raise the flop to $18 to protect your hand.




also so many posts are just hands, no read, no rhyme or reason to why you played a hand or why you made an odd play with a hand. include this to make it easier for everyone when you post.



but in general the attitude and tone of many responses in this forum are becoming ridiculous. i hope the mods start enforcing there rules because this is a place of learning. dont just tell a person hes a moron, explain to him why he is a moron.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

eh, i have to abide by more of these rules, nice PSA.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

Maybe having a one street chat thread wouldn't be a bad idea to reduce the number of "do I call this river" or "give me a good amount to bet" threads.

Dunno if it would work, but the interesting hands are far between w/ the traffic SSNL gets.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

I have him on ignore- can someone summarize this post?

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
back in the good old days when the 2p2 community was small, people didnt have 10 accounts 9 gimmick accounts, people who signed up didnt sign up to just post in BBV and B4L, we suddenly had a huge influx of people sign up due to the huge poker craze.

SSNL ranged from 2NL to 200NL. with all the new players coming in SSNL was the most trafficked site on 2p2. all of the sudden it got out of hand. everyone was so quick to jump down someones throat about hands and the tone of tons of peoples post were very crass and unhelpful to the community as a whole. we then had the split between uNL and SSNL and mods made it an effort to make sure everyone was respectful and brought meaning to their posts in the strat forums instead of just flaming someone for not being as intellectually brilliant as them when it comes to poker.

Ive noticed that this tone is coming back in so many different threads and it seems like a lot of these threads are filled with useless posts that serve no function other then raising someones post count.

here is a link incase you havent seen it or read it

posting guidelines


and incase youre too lazy to read it ill cut and paste a few blurbs out of it for you.


--flaming. Not allowed. Good natured ribbing amongst known posters is, of course, OK.

TIPS FOR RESPONDING IN HAND THREADS

--Be kind.
--Include the reasoning of your analysis, even if it's brief.

Bad: Raise more pf.
Good: Your hand plays best heads-up, but your preflop raise was too small to get the job done. Try raising to $6 instead of $3.

Bad: Push river.
Good: Pooosh. Villian likes his hand. You have the second nuts. If he's got quads, oh well.

Bad: You're too stupid to play SSNL. Try checkers instead.
Good: Bad on every street. 1/4-pot flop bet was purposeless, turn call was horrible given your odds, then you suckout on the river and get no value.

Bad: You can't call this turn.
Good: You can't call this turn because your opponent is WAY to passive to start betting here without the flush, and you don't have the odds to chase anymore.

Bad: Raise the flop.
Good: Raise the flop to $18 to protect your hand.




also so many posts are just hands, no read, no rhyme or reason to why you played a hand or why you made an odd play with a hand. include this to make it easier for everyone when you post.



but in general the attitude and tone of many responses in this forum are becoming ridiculous. i hope the mods start enforcing there rules because this is a place of learning. dont just tell a person hes a moron, explain to him why he is a moron.

[/ QUOTE ]



Just to add some content to this post besides just quoting so manupod can read it:


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post13113706

That's the kind of threads that could be avoided. Not ripping the OP, but that threads not gonna generate any interesting responses at all.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe having a one street chat thread wouldn't be a bad idea to reduce the number of "do I call this river" or "give me a good amount to bet" threads.

Dunno if it would work, but the interesting hands are far between w/ the traffic SSNL gets.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but those are ok. poster has a question about how much to bet and people say bet this much and why.

whats getting out of hand is

worst fold ever
ZOMG easiest all in ever
you suck and will never move up

and other non useful posts in this tone. it helps no one, save that [censored] and [x]'s for BBV

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe having a one street chat thread wouldn't be a bad idea to reduce the number of "do I call this river" or "give me a good amount to bet" threads.

Dunno if it would work, but the interesting hands are far between w/ the traffic SSNL gets.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but those are ok. poster has a question about how much to bet and people say bet this much and why.

whats getting out of hand is

worst fold ever
ZOMG easiest all in ever
you suck and will never move up

and other non useful posts in this tone. it helps no one, save that [censored] and [x]'s for BBV

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I'm not disagreeing with you in case that was unclear.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bad: Raise more pf.
Good: Your hand plays best heads-up, but your preflop raise was too small to get the job done. Try raising to $6 instead of $3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I won't post in SSNL if I have to make posts like this where people need spoon feeding really obvious points.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

yeah i know your not disagreeing with me

also it might not generate great discussion for us but every post cant be to create the best discussion ever. this is a place to learn and someone has a question about a hand he should be shown the optimal line in a friendly clear manner. just because we understand what to do and why to do it, others may not. there are plenty of mid/high NL players who post here in responses to threads as well, and most of the things they point out are the easiest concepts ever to them, but to others they are not.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bad: Raise more pf.
Good: Your hand plays best heads-up, but your preflop raise was too small to get the job done. Try raising to $6 instead of $3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I won't post in SSNL if I have to make posts like this where people need spoon feeding really obvious points.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats the problem jay, its not obvious to everyone. either dont post or post something insightful. so i think thats a good thing if you decide not to post on something you think is obvious rather then make a bad post.

aside from those types of posts, ie raise, fold, bet more, i was addressing more on peoples tone lately. its like everyone is on their period around here

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

What I hate is when someone posts a hand ABOUT A RIVER ACTION or TURN ACTION (get what I'm saying?) and everyone bitches about folding pf instead.

I think some people here don't realize that between 17/15 and 29/24 there are a lot of different pf actions. Some people open QJo UTG, others fold it on the button. Nothing pisses me off more then when people are trying to impose their pf style on me and my hand posts, when I didn't ask for it.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
What I hate is when someone posts a hand ABOUT A RIVER ACTION or TURN ACTION (get what I'm saying?) and everyone bitches about folding pf instead.

I think some people here don't realize that between 17/15 and 29/24 there are a lot of different pf actions. Some people open QJo UTG, others fold it on the button. Nothing pisses me off more then when people are trying to impose their pf style on me and my hand posts, when I didn't ask for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[x] Shouldn't open this comment in the 10th post.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

Jay has a valid point, some things have been explained so many times or are so basically fundamental that people should do their homework and search/read old posts more instead of expecting to have every point politely explained in detail.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jay has a valid point, some things have been explained so many times or are so basically fundamental that people should do their homework and search/read old posts more instead of expecting to have every point politely explained in detail.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats fine, but its not need to make a pointless/flame post about it.

there are some hands people i know wont even post because they know the first four responses will be

standard

you are horrible at poker

the games havent dried up people

am i being leveled?


if you dont want to respond in a nice manner, then dont.

if the thread is really that pointless then not responding will just let it drift away and not be seen again rather then pointless bumps.

and FWIW any new post can probably be searched through old posts and an almost identical post would probably be found that replicates the same situation to a tee

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

You suck. Fold preflop.

jk [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

I agree w/ Jay 100% now.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
What I hate is when someone posts a hand ABOUT A RIVER ACTION or TURN ACTION (get what I'm saying?) and everyone bitches about folding pf instead.

I think some people here don't realize that between 17/15 and 29/24 there are a lot of different pf actions. Some people open QJo UTG, others fold it on the button. Nothing pisses me off more then when people are trying to impose their pf style on me and my hand posts, when I didn't ask for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is why im ignored, lol.

maybe someone will repost this so he can see, but regardless of what you are asking for you might still get responses that are geared towards other streets as well. people are trying to offer you their responses for you to make the most +EV play in the long run. maybe a pf play has put you in this tough situation that in the long run could be avoided, by either folding, 4b, cold calling preflop. if you dont like the response then dont listen to it.

but your point has nothing to do with the general tone in alot of the posts recently which is what i was addressing

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

Quoting myself from the last time someone posted this thread:


[ QUOTE ]
No.

DUCY?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

Should be able to vote for both imo

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

Choose the one you think would be best for the forum.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

lol at results so far.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

I think you all are whiny lil girls imo

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

actually I take that back. I don't post much in MSNL b/c there are proportionally a lot more aholes there, so a good friendly community is important, but I don't think SSNL is that bad at all. if you take away ikestoys posts and people flaming Nielso we're all quite nice

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
actually I take that back. I don't post much in MSNL b/c there are proportionally a lot more aholes there, so a good friendly community is important, but I don't think SSNL is that bad at all. if you take away ikestoys posts and people flaming Nielso we're all quite nice

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it was the mix a seeing some noobs make bad responses over the last month, and the influx of ike making crappy post after crappy post that just made me post this.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

If you have a problem with a particular poster, take it up with that poster. But trying to change the culture here is pointless and futile unless you have the power to ban people and the support of the forum to back you up.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
actually I take that back. I don't post much in MSNL b/c there are proportionally a lot more aholes there, so a good friendly community is important, but I don't think SSNL is that bad at all. if you take away ikestoys posts and people flaming Nielso we're all quite nice

[/ QUOTE ]

SSNL may be nicer than MSNL, but that doesn't mean it's a very friendly place. I don't post as much in here as often as I used to or should be, but I still lurk a ton and have definitely noticed what the OP is saying. SSNL has gradually become a very unfriendly place.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

i find most msnl posters to be dickish. it's not surprising, because those guys make much more money on average and that's what an ego does.

i think ssnlers are usually pretty nice. maybe part of it is that i've made thousands of posts in this forum and am somewhat known.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
actually I take that back. I don't post much in MSNL b/c there are proportionally a lot more aholes there, so a good friendly community is important, but I don't think SSNL is that bad at all. if you take away ikestoys posts and people flaming Nielso we're all quite nice

[/ QUOTE ]

SSNL may be nicer than MSNL, but that doesn't mean it's a very friendly place. I don't post as much in here as often as I used to or should be, but I still lurk a ton and have definitely noticed what the OP is saying. SSNL has gradually become a very unfriendly place.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing this is because of all the horrible posts the good posters are expected to read through. It's supposed to be a forum for interesting discussion, not a 'post a bad hand have some good regs politely teach you how to play poker' place. Those people need a coach, not posting rights.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
i find most msnl posters to be dickish. it's not surprising, because those guys make much more money on average and that's what an ego does.

i think ssnlers are usually pretty nice. maybe part of it is that i've made thousands of posts in this forum and am somewhat known.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember that every time you post here you help your opponents. That gets even more real as you progress in stakes. Not saying that's an excuse, I try to be friendly, but this gets more immediate every time you move up.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

you are right. i can see why people might not want to post that often for that reason. but this is no excuse for having an attitude.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
you are right. i can see why people might not want to post that often for that reason. but this is no excuse for having an attitude.

[/ QUOTE ]

I refer you to web John Gabriel's Greater Internet [censored] Theory

Most people on the internet behave like idiots.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

manupod,

one poster's horrible post is another's interesting discussion. if you think a post sucks, dont participate in it. if you dont like people giving you preflop advice, just ignore it and move on. trying to change the way people post threads or what kind of advice they give is just pissing in to the wind.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

I'd also add that lots of people will move to this forum from uNL, and may will be posting seemingly standard hands that they are unsure on because of the increased aggression at 100NL and higher. I don't thik it's fair that they get shot down in flames just because they are new to the higher stakes. We were all noobs once...

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
actually I take that back. I don't post much in MSNL b/c there are proportionally a lot more aholes there, so a good friendly community is important, but I don't think SSNL is that bad at all. if you take away ikestoys posts and people flaming Nielso we're all quite nice

[/ QUOTE ]

SSNL may be nicer than MSNL, but that doesn't mean it's a very friendly place. I don't post as much in here as often as I used to or should be, but I still lurk a ton and have definitely noticed what the OP is saying. SSNL has gradually become a very unfriendly place.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing this is because of all the horrible posts the good posters are expected to read through. It's supposed to be a forum for interesting discussion, not a 'post a bad hand have some good regs politely teach you how to play poker' place. Those people need a coach, not posting rights.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's two solutions to this:

1) The "good posters" (whatever that means) should ignore threads they find to be standard/retreads/etc. No one is obligated to post in EVERY thread.

2) More mods/modding. Delete useless threads. Create some sort of weekly/monthly thread for basic questions.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
manupod,

one poster's horrible post is another's interesting discussion. if you think a post sucks, dont participate in it. if you dont like people giving you preflop advice, just ignore it and move on. trying to change the way people post threads or what kind of advice they give is just pissing in to the wind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is what Im trying to say



http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...nupod2/pbv.jpg

now I must go and eat food.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

get your noob out should be a weekly feature here, and the regs need to stop derailing it

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

You may have a problem with tilt.

The SSNL mods are very good.

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
More mods/modding. Delete useless threads. Create some sort of weekly/monthly thread for basic questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

they could just be moved to unl

Re: (NC) post on tone
 

[ QUOTE ]
manupod,

one poster's horrible post is another's interesting discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

very, very rarely is this true.