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photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
My wife and I have had the Canon S3IS for about 1 year.
http://www.digitalfunstuff.com.au/im...rshot-s3is.jpg S3IS It takes pretty good pictures and my wife has been getting a lot better with it. I'm thinking of upgrading to a digital SLR camera (xmas gift for wife) and figured some of you might have some suggestions. Right now I'm torn between the Canon Rebel XTi http://www.doobybrain.com/wp-content...-rebel-xti.jpg and the Nikon D40X http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8...kond40xjf6.jpg and I have the following questions: 1) Lenses - How concerned should I be about the stock lenses? Should I go ahead and buy a better lens right out of the gate or learn with the stock lense first? 2) zoom - My current point and shoot has 10X optical zoom. What is the equivalent zoom on an SLR lens? I've tried googling this but haven't found a good answer. 3) in general, what should I be looking out for? I'm going to have this camera for a long time, so what should I be concerned with? Any tips on good books or DVDs for using an SLR? This camera will be for my wife but I would like to learn how to get the most out of it too. Thanks OOT! |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
www.kenrockwell.com has good reviews of DSLRs, he shoots mostly Nikon but has recently been shooting with Canons as well.
I have a Nikon D70S and am very happy with it. I haven't heard anything bad about Nikon stock lenses and wouldn't imagine Canon's to be any different. Before you start thinking about new lenses you should have an idea of what you are going to be shooting. Critters require longer lenses, landscapes and people shorter. The longest lens I've used was the Nikon low-end 70-300mm zoom and was very happy with it. Out of hundreds of images I think I saw chromatic aboration a couple of times, it wasn't very fast, but for what I was shooting it was fine. I can't imagine 10x zoom is more than 200mm but I don't know. Googling around will give a bunch of different photography sites where you can see other peoples work and get tips. I would also recommend a beginners class at either a community college or through a local camera shop. The D70S is a 6 megapixel camera and I haven't had any problems printing images up to 10"x14" for a 16"x20" frame, so don't be lured by high pixel counts. You can see the stuff I've done at http://gallery.mac.com/kerowo |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
dpreview.com
the ultimate photography review site - just like avsforums.com - the forums there are full of neurotic people but a wealth of info. Great camera reviews. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1 [/ QUOTE ] good stuff in that thread, sure, but it's a year old. A lot has changed. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
what has changed? the cameras you are considering all more than a year old.
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
what has changed? the cameras you are considering all more than a year old. [/ QUOTE ] no they're not. D40x and XTi are new versions. I figured a new thread to discuss this (buying a camera) might be in order. Nevertheless, if the powers that be diagree, they may feel free to lock this and I will bump the old thread and humbly apologize for creating a new one. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
I chose the Nikon D80 over the D40 because of lens compatability - I have a significant investment in Nikor lenses that would not work on the D40.
I was also concerned about the "digital zoom" but, in reality, you can do a digital zoom on the optical image when you edit in your photo management software. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
Your "point and shoot" has 10X optical zoom??
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
Your "point and shoot" has 10X optical zoom?? [/ QUOTE ] Yup, the S3IS does. I just checked, 12X actually. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
40d
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
DDY,
I just recently ordered a dSLR, also as a Xmas present. I had the same conundrum as you, but at a lower level (xt versus d40). I ended up ordering the xt. Most of the advice I was given came down to: they're both excellent cameras, and most of the differences between them are very nominal, therefore it all depends on how it feels in your hand. I did hear that Nikons (the d40 at least) aren't as good shooting in low light. Also, I heard that Canon lenses are better, but Nikon flashes are better, fwiw. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
i own an xti and main problem is size/shape of camera. id go handle both of these at a store to make sure it fits your hand. i think the body of the canon is rather slim and shooting with it for a few hours isnt very comfortable. from what i understand this is a common complaint for a lot of guys.
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Your "point and shoot" has 10X optical zoom?? [/ QUOTE ] Yup, the S3IS does. I just checked, 12X actually. [/ QUOTE ] hmm I guess I just never thought of a camera this big and bulky: http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/396...gt3223lao7.jpg as a point and shoot. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
I see your point, but technically it is a point and shoot.
And it's really not that big and bulky, believe it or not. It's too big to put in your pocket, sure, but it is much smaller than any SLR. Cameras like the S3IS are kind of between a real SLR and a small pocket size point and shoot. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
I chose the Nikon D80 over the D40 because of lens compatability - I have a significant investment in Nikor lenses that would not work on the D40. [/ QUOTE ] That's my only real problem with the Nikon. Apparently, there is no auto-focus inside the body of the camera. That means that every lens you ever use with this camera must have an auto-focus built into the lens. I'm wondering if this is going to be a problem in the future. Other than that, I'm leaning towards the Nikon. I like the way the camera feels better and it seems to focus a little faster. Does anyone have any insight into the zoom question in my OP? [ QUOTE ] I heard that Canon lenses are better [/ QUOTE ] I've heard that same thing. But I also read in more than 1 place that the lens that comes standard with the XTi (I know you said you got the XT) sucks. I'm worried about having to drop another $500 on a lens a month after I buy the camera. To be fair, I probably wouldn't notice that much of a difference. I'm starting to notice a lot of comments on these cameras from pros and amatuers since both of them use these lower end SLRs quite extensively. Obviously, things that pros hate are not even going to be noticed by the more casual photographer. That makes it kind of tough to sift through the comments/reviews to figure out which complaints are a big deal and which aren't. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
My Kodak Z712 IS is a point and shoot with 12x Optical.
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
The truth of the mater is that you won't be able to tell the difference between a Canon or a Nikon lens. Not in everyday shooting. Maybe if all you shoot is brick walls or tennis nets.
A 12x optical zoom means the long end is 12 times the wide end. So if it is 25mm on the wide end it would 300mm at the long end. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
For what reasons would someone get a DSLR over a Digital Point and Shoot with 12x - 18x Optical Zoom? Not being nitty, just curious as to what the DSLR does that much better? I know you can take a bajillion photos in like 1 second, but is there anything else?
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
40d [/ QUOTE ] Cannot believe it took this long into the thread. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
Point and shoots usually have pretty bad shutter lag, so you tend to miss shots because they've moved after pressing the button. The lens quality isn't as good as the more expensive lenses that come with a DSLR. They are going to be much slower, so you'll need more light to take hand held shots. You'll probably be able to see lens distortions at more of the zoom range than with a DSLR lens. The sensor in the camera is going to be noisier than in a DSLR at the same ISO.
Generally, PASs are for people who want to take snap shots for their web page and aren't very serious about photography. The cameras that have been talked about in this thread are pro-sumer and are for when people start taking it more seriously. Can you take stunning pictures with a PAS? Yup. Just not as easily and not in as wide a range of lighting situations as with a DSLR. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
Is there a huge difference in quality say between a...
Carl Zeiss and a Schneider-Kreuznach compared to a DSLR lens on a Nikon or Canon? |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
I'd take a Pentax K10D over these cameras.
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
My wife and I have had the Canon S3IS for about 1 year. http://www.digitalfunstuff.com.au/im...rshot-s3is.jpg 1) Lenses - How concerned should I be about the stock lenses? Should I go ahead and buy a better lens right out of the gate or learn with the stock lense first? 2) zoom - My current point and shoot has 10X optical zoom. What is the equivalent zoom on an SLR lens? I've tried googling this but haven't found a good answer. 3) in general, what should I be looking out for? I'm going to have this camera for a long time, so what should I be concerned with? Any tips on good books or DVDs for using an SLR? This camera will be for my wife but I would like to learn how to get the most out of it too. Thanks OOT! [/ QUOTE ] 1. Generally, from photography buffs, the answer will be yes, but I think that it's not always appropriate. It really depends on what you're using it for. I am a Canon guy myself and I find the kit lens to be passable, but as you grow into the camera and photography itself, you'll find yourself using it less. Still, not terrible. If you have the money, then sure, why not. 2. I found this: [ QUOTE ] Optical Zoom (X times zoom) and Digital Zoom Optical zoom = maximum focal lenght / minimum focal length For instance, the optical zoom of a 28-280mm zoom lens is 280mm/28mm or 10X. This means that the size of a subject projected on the film or sensor surface will be ten times larger at maximum tele (280mm) than at maximum wide angle (28mm). Optical zoom should not be confused with digital zoom. [/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't be too caught up in this though. Generally, you're going to want more than one lens. For example, you could have the EF-S 10-22mm for wide angle, the EF 24-70L for the middle range, and say the 70-200L for telephoto. (these are somewhat expensive lenses, but I'm just using them as an example). This is effectively 20x zoom based on the description i found above. 3. Beyond all the technical qualities, you should be looking for a camera that feels good in your hand. The best way to learn is to shoot a lot of photos, and get involved in online communities (Flickr has a good community) where you can post your photos, get feedback, talk about technical stuff, etc. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
1) Lenses - How concerned should I be about the stock lenses? Should I go ahead and buy a better lens right out of the gate or learn with the stock lense first? [/ QUOTE ]In general, the "kit" lenses aren't as good as aftermarket lenses. However, Canon just introduced a new lens, the 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS, which is being touted in reviews as being among the highest quality lenses for Canon. I don't know if the XTi will be sold in a kit with the new lens, but it will be less than $200. Also, while the kit lens isn't as good, it is still a pretty good lens. I just printed out an 8x10 using the kit lens and it looks just fine. [ QUOTE ] 2) zoom - My current point and shoot has 10X optical zoom. What is the equivalent zoom on an SLR lens? [/ QUOTE ]The S3 has a lens equivalent to a 36-412 lens in 35 mm format. [ QUOTE ] 3) in general, what should I be looking out for? [/ QUOTE ] In general, look for how they feel in your hand. Since you're a Canon user, you might be more used to the Canon system so it should be easier for you to learn the Canon than the Nikon. Personally, I'm a Canon shooter and will always recommend Canon over Nikon. But in reality, you can't go wrong with either pick. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] what has changed? the cameras you are considering all more than a year old. [/ QUOTE ] no they're not. D40x and XTi are new versions. [/ QUOTE ] The XTi is a new version, but it is more than a year old (introduced August 2006, reviewed in October 2006.) |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I chose the Nikon D80 over the D40 because of lens compatability - I have a significant investment in Nikor lenses that would not work on the D40. [/ QUOTE ] That's my only real problem with the Nikon. Apparently, there is no auto-focus inside the body of the camera. That means that every lens you ever use with this camera must have an auto-focus built into the lens. I'm wondering if this is going to be a problem in the future. [/ QUOTE ]The same is true for Canon lenses also (the AF is in the lens, not the body). But you shouldn't worry about that at all. Canon and Nikon will be around and making compatible lenses for a long time. [ QUOTE ] Other than that, I'm leaning towards the Nikon. I like the way the camera feels better and it seems to focus a little faster. [/ QUOTE ]You may have been testing the "kit" lens for the Canon. Their higher-end lenses with USM focus almost instantly. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I heard that Canon lenses are better [/ QUOTE ] I've heard that same thing. But I also read in more than 1 place that the lens that comes standard with the XTi (I know you said you got the XT) sucks. I'm worried about having to drop another $500 on a lens a month after I buy the camera. [/ QUOTE ] The other poster is probably right. Canon has a better reputation for lenses. Nikon has a better reputation for flashes. But you don't need to spend $500 for high quality. Here is the lens I posted about earlier: only $180: http://www.amazon.com/Canon-EF-S-18-...dp/B000V5K3FG/ As I said, it gets rave reviews: http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/len...56is/index.htm |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
Point and shoots usually have pretty bad shutter lag, so you tend to miss shots because they've moved after pressing the button. The lens quality isn't as good as the more expensive lenses that come with a DSLR. They are going to be much slower, so you'll need more light to take hand held shots. You'll probably be able to see lens distortions at more of the zoom range than with a DSLR lens. The sensor in the camera is going to be noisier than in a DSLR at the same ISO. Generally, PASs are for people who want to take snap shots for their web page and aren't very serious about photography. The cameras that have been talked about in this thread are pro-sumer and are for when people start taking it more seriously. Can you take stunning pictures with a PAS? Yup. Just not as easily and not in as wide a range of lighting situations as with a DSLR. [/ QUOTE ] Good response. (except the slower speed comment P&S lenses are usually fairly fast. OP's S3 opens up to f/2.7. You generally can't get f/2.8 in a DSLR zoom lens without spending $900+). The main advantages of a DSLR over a P&S: 1) focus speed/shutter lag. These are interchangeable because one of the reasons for shutter lag in s P&S is because it takes longer to focus. So, if you're taking photos of a moving target (e.g., your kids), you're a lot more likely to get an in focus shot using a DSLR. 2) Lighting flexibility. Most P&S cameras have a built-in flash with no option to use an external flash. The problem with the built-in flash is that it is too close to the lens (leading to red-eye), and it is not powerful enough (leading to dark photos and/or dark backgrounds. An external flash is much more powerful and is farther from the lens. Plus, you have the ability to move the flash off the camera. (You rarely see "professional" portraits taken with a flash located on the camera.) 3) Better high ISO performance. Today's DSLRs are very good even at ISO 800 or ISO 1600. Many P&S cameras are practically useless above ISO 400 because of noise. (compare http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonS3IS/page6.asp with http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page19.asp and http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page18.asp Those are the main advantages, but as one becomes more advanced, they can branch out into different fields of photography, each of which has specialized lenses that are much better than P&S lenses (e.g., portrait lenses, long lenses for birding/sports, macro lenses for close-ups). |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
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[ QUOTE ] 40d [/ QUOTE ] Cannot believe it took this long into the thread. [/ QUOTE ] Great camera. But more than twice as much as OP wants to spend. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 40d [/ QUOTE ] Cannot believe it took this long into the thread. [/ QUOTE ] Great camera. But more than twice as much as OP wants to spend. [/ QUOTE ] I have the 40D, the Canon 50mm f/1.2, 50mm f/1.4, MP-E 65mm macro 1-5x, 100mm f/2.8 macro, Sigma 18-50mm macro, and a few other lenses. The camera is amazing. My only complaint so far is that photos taken indoors with the auto white balance come out sort of yellow, but that's fixable in the camera settings (and you can always add RAW capture for later processing.) The 50mm f/1.2 costs as much as the camera, but I'm getting horribly spoiled by how it works in low light. Short of spending $3K for an f/1 (or f/0.95) lens, it's about the best I'm going to get. There's really no need for most people to spend $1500 on it though - the 50mm f/1.4 is $300, and the f/1.8 is closer to $100. The picture quality you'll get off that last one is incredible for the price. |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
I personally like Canon better and own a 30D. I couldn't be happier at the price point. IMO canon has better lenses, but you really can't go wrong with canon or nikon.
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
www.kenrockwell.com has good reviews of DSLRs, he shoots mostly Nikon but has recently been shooting with Canons as well. [/ QUOTE ] QFT, /thread. Go to the "Technical" section of his webpage, and you'll find many articles that will answer all of the questions about your specific situation. This guy really knows his stuff, but just as important, he's not some snooty photography buff who looks down on any point&shoot. quite the opposite, he's very no nonsense, use whatever works, type of guy. That, and dpreview.com can be helpful too, but that I think mostly for reference information and such. -bigbootch |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
I like DCresource as well.
Anyone know a good site to figure out if i should get a photo printer or not, and if so which one? |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
I like DCresource as well. Anyone know a good site to figure out if i should get a photo printer or not, and if so which one? [/ QUOTE ] Rockwell says to use your local Costco or drugstore. To me, one of the conveniences of digital is the ability to make my own prints without having to go to the drugstore to pick them up. The only site I know of with printer reviews is http://www.photo-i.co.uk/ |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
I was at Walmart yesterday doing a return and getting Digital Photos printed just seemed so damn cheap. It was like 14 cents for each one if you are willing to wait 2 days or 19 cents if you can wait an hour. With it being that cheap i just have to wonder should i really get a printer? With how expensive ink is i wonder how many photos i would have to print per year to make it worth it.
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I chose the Nikon D80 over the D40 because of lens compatability - I have a significant investment in Nikor lenses that would not work on the D40. [/ QUOTE ] That's my only real problem with the Nikon. Apparently, there is no auto-focus inside the body of the camera. That means that every lens you ever use with this camera must have an auto-focus built into the lens. I'm wondering if this is going to be a problem in the future. [/ QUOTE ]The same is true for Canon lenses also (the AF is in the lens, not the body). But you shouldn't worry about that at all. Canon and Nikon will be around and making compatible lenses for a long time. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I was mistaken here. (Typical Canon user, I know little about the Nikon system.) This is something I would worry about also. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, here's some background. Back in the 80s, Nikon had its F-mount lenses and Canon had its FD-mount. But when Nikon and Canon started switching to autofocus, they took different paths. Canon completely dumped the FD mount and developed the EF mount, with the AF motor located in the lens. The end result is that all Canon's autofocus lenses will completely work on all Canon AF bodies. But none of the MF lenses will work. Nikon didn't want to abandon the F-mount, so it modified it by putting the motor in the camera and putting a screw drive mechanism in the mount, to drive the AF motor. Lenses compatible with this format are designated "AF". Later, Nikon started making lenses where the AF motor is built into the lens. These lenses are designated AF-S. This is all fine and good until Nikon released the D40 and D40X. Neither body has an AF motor. So none of the AF lenses will operate on this body in AF mode (though they will operate as Manual focus lenses.) The end result is that you must consult a lens compatibility chart (like this one: http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html ) to determine what features will be working with a particular lens/body combination. It would seem that the inability to use a large number of Nikon lenses with the D40 would seem to render useless the purpose of getting a Nikon body (access to the Nikon range of lenses). OTOH, there are a lot of AF-S lenses, so maybe it's not that much of a handicap. You'd have to ask a Nikon user for more specifics, though. And to go off on another Rockwell rant, on this page, he praises the compatibility of all Nikon lenses on all Nikon bodies, going paragraph after paragraph lavishing praise on them. Then you go to this page and you realize that a whole bunch of Nikon lenses don't fully work with the D40. They will mount, but the meter won't work or the AF won't work. Funny how he doesn't mention that while praising the compatibility. A lot more of today's users would care more about whether old lenses fit on new bodies than if new lenses fit on old bodies (which is the focus of the first link). |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
The nicest thing about having a photo printer in your home is you can tweak the color in the images and re-print in a couple of minutes instead of a couple of days. However, if you aren't going to be doing a lot of printing on-line sites like Mpix or Adorama are probably more cost effective. And at Adorama (and maybe Mpix, I haven't looked for a while) you can get metalic papers which really make blue sky look nice.
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
[ QUOTE ]
Is there a huge difference in quality say between a... Carl Zeiss and a Schneider-Kreuznach compared to a DSLR lens on a Nikon or Canon? [/ QUOTE ] There are user reviews at http://www.photodo.com/products.html that have very high ratings for Carl Zeiss. But that site has no standardized tests for Carl Zeiss. However, that site reviews across lens formats and the highest rating they've ever given is to a Canon EF lens. In general, the best Canon and Nikon lenses fare well against even the best Leica lenses. But there are no bad or even Leica lenses, and there are average Nikon and Canon lenses Schneider, isn't that a Large format lens? Why would one compare a large format lens to an SLR lens? |
Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
I know next to nothing about how different lens work, so i was just asking in general quality wise how they compare. If they can't be compared, disregard the question.
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Re: photography buffs, help me buy a DSLR camera
go with canon. its a bigger company and has more lens variety.
also invest in lenses. they are more important than the body anyway. to answer the question, i would get a used 30d and a 28-135is lens. |
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