Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

Villain is a regular. Long time winner. Somewhat weird preflop, but fairly straight forward postflop with a slight inkling towards calling. Fairly early into the session I got my stack by hitting runner runner flush versus his set :P I bet the flop with the knowledge that I might have to get fancy

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $200.95
Hero (UTG): $420
CO: $73.45
BTN: $204.65
SB: $174.75

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $8, 2 folds

Flop: ($19) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $14</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $28</font>, Hero calls $14

Turn: ($75) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $48</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $384 and is All-In</font>

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

Who knows. Read-, image-, history-dependent. I don't hate it.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

Does he minraise with air as well as a piece of the flop sometimes?

This kind of makes me want to start minraising aggresive regulars.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

I'd really need a stronger read (basically, knowledge of what he minraises on the flop with) to be doing anything like this.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

c/r the flop if you want to get fancy.

I dont hate it...its just so read/image/history dependant that we can't really give advice.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

is this a stars thing? I havent seen much minraising like that from regulars on FTP. Still I would expect it to be a weakish overpair a lot of the time. You would expect he would often check that behind on the turn though so his range is probably quite polarized (omg ssnl buzzword), so it comes down to how often you think he is fos here. Looks spewy to me though.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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I'd really need a stronger read (basically, knowledge of what he minraises on the flop with) to be doing anything like this.

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I've seen him make smallish raises twice before, but neither went to showdown (prior sessions).

What I'm basically asking is what people do this with? If it's usually a weakish hand or air my line is fine.

I did also have backdoor spades and 2nd strongest unpaired hand, so if he's raising air I have him beat if I get to showdown in a very odd way.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

I would think he could be doing this with weak overpairs, 33/44, or something like A3/A4, or maybe sets...I dunno, I dont see much of this at FTP.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

I almost never see regs at FTP minraise, so I can't comment too much. Bad TAGs could do it with weak overpairs because many SSNL players aren't comfortable playing those types of hands on 3 streets without a set. If you think he's good, I'd expect him to have the goods here, just trying to bloat the pot enough to make sure he can set up a shove by the river.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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I would think he could be doing this with weak overpairs, 33/44, or something like A3/A4, or maybe sets...I dunno, I dont see much of this at FTP.

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Okay, that was pretty much my feeling as well. If that's the general consensus I think the hand is okay.

Also, it's a lot more prevelent at pstars than full tilt I've also noticed.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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I almost never see regs at FTP minraise, so I can't comment too much.

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I see it sometimes. I do it sometimes. It's just a way to F with people whether you have the goods, air, or something in-between.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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Who knows. Read-, image-, history-dependent. I don't hate it.

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yeah, really hard to answer

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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c/r the flop if you want to get fancy.

I dont hate it...its just so read/image/history dependant that we can't really give advice.

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Do not check raise the flop please

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

ChilliWilly15 (9:55:00 PM): at least bump that

obligatory bump

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

this is pretty good. repping an overpair.

looks like villain has 77-jj/67s

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

i like it if you think hes fos

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

With a certain sort of metagame, I like this line.

Your c-bet range should be like overpairs/78/total air. So given that range, it doesn't make sense for him to raise your c-bet small with a set. But it does make sense to minraise your c-bet as a bluff.

On the turn he can def expect you to fold the weaker end of your range, and can def expect you to c/r the stronger end of your range, so it makes sense for him to continue and your line looks credible.


That said, the read you gave doesn't really convince me that this sort of metagame exists. NL200 regs do weird [censored] for value cause lots of them suck. Plus, I think you come off a bit FPSy, so people are probably more likely to take this line against you with a strong hand to try and induce some FPS.


Also, check/fold the flop.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

i think you got owned in this one tbh, especially if he knows youre known for spewing a lot

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

I hate it. I see absolutely no reason to bet that flop. If you're going to need to "play poker" to make this reg fold his fair share of hands, then it's best to do it with more than a bet or two behind you.

imo, then best line by far is to check turn and then dance / make it rain / play poker. You can rep an overpair pretty convincingly by checking behind that flop and waking up later.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

I can't recall hardly ever being minraised on the flop by a winning Stars $200 regular. Share who villain was?

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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You can rep an overpair pretty convincingly by checking behind that flop and waking up later.


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huh?

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

[censored] you're OOP, urrgrghrghghgh

Disregard above post. If your reads are right then that line is fine but obviously ultra high variance (and imo unnecessary). If he's really that bad of an fps-ey spewtard then just pair-mining is fine.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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You can rep an overpair pretty convincingly by checking behind that flop and waking up later.


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huh?

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Yeah I have HH dyslexia, thought we were IP.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

u can fold out 77-99 and everything else calls so this isnt good?

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

OOP without a very good read i just fold
in position i kinda like the bluff 3bet

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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Who knows. Read-, image-, history-dependent. I don't hate it.

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Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

i dunno - if you're going to do this, why not just 3-bet flop and push turn? that's a lot more believable imo.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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i dunno - if you're going to do this, why not just 3-bet flop and push turn? that's a lot more believable imo.

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So you're telling me 3 betting the flop is less likely to be a bluff then calling flop raise on a rainbow flop then check/raising the turn when the ONLY draw got there?

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u can fold out 77-99 and everything else calls so this isnt good?

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This doesn't make sense. If he's folding 77-99 he's probably folding a lot of 1 pair hands.

All, villain is soccertease. He's like 22/13.5. We've also went at it pretty hard in this short session.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

I think this is okay, I lost recently when the reg called with something like 67 or something and owned me.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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i dunno - if you're going to do this, why not just 3-bet flop and push turn? that's a lot more believable imo.

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So you're telling me 3 betting the flop is less likely to be a bluff then calling flop raise on a rainbow flop then check/raising the turn when the ONLY draw got there?

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u can fold out 77-99 and everything else calls so this isnt good?

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This doesn't make sense. If he's folding 77-99 he's probably folding a lot of 1 pair hands.

All, villain is soccertease. He's like 22/13.5. We've also went at it pretty hard in this short session.

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I liked it until you said villain's name. I'd just fold the flop vs him.

Also, you really think he wins?

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

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i dunno - if you're going to do this, why not just 3-bet flop and push turn? that's a lot more believable imo.

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So you're telling me 3 betting the flop is less likely to be a bluff then calling flop raise on a rainbow flop then check/raising the turn when the ONLY draw got there?

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u can fold out 77-99 and everything else calls so this isnt good?

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This doesn't make sense. If he's folding 77-99 he's probably folding a lot of 1 pair hands.

All, villain is soccertease. He's like 22/13.5. We've also went at it pretty hard in this short session.

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I liked it until you said villain's name. I'd just fold the flop vs him.

Also, you really think he wins?

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I've seen him at 1/2 forever, and never move up or down so I can't imagine him not being a small winner.

Re: Battling Flop Miniraises from Regs
 

I also did this to him earlier, and we had been going at it. If he had a set on the flop I imagine he'd raise larger, because I'd def shove an overpair over that raise.

POKERSTARS GAME #13428673124: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2007/11/23 - 22:04:52 (ET)
Table 'Sarpedon IV' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: bastin ($172 in chips)
Seat 2: ChilliWilly ($202 in chips)
Seat 3: Boogs01 ($118.15 in chips)
Seat 4: moeplayer ($58.75 in chips)
Seat 5: soccertease ($291.60 in chips)
Seat 6: Chillo ($198.75 in chips)
soccertease: posts small blind $1
Chillo: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChilliWilly [Qs Ah]
bastin: calls $2
ChilliWilly: raises $8 to $10
Boogs01: folds
moeplayer: calls $10
soccertease: calls $9
Chillo: folds
bastin: calls $8
*** FLOP *** [4h 7c Qh]
soccertease: checks
bastin: checks
ChilliWilly: bets $32
moeplayer: folds
soccertease: raises $40 to $72
bastin: folds
ChilliWilly: raises $120 to $192 and is all-in
soccertease: calls $120
*** TURN *** [4h 7c Qh] [8h]
*** RIVER *** [4h 7c Qh 8h] [Kh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
soccertease: shows [4c 4s] (three of a kind, Fours)
ChilliWilly: shows [Qs Ah] (a flush, Ace high)
ChilliWilly collected $423 from pot