AA facing heat
 

Villan is a TAG. He's on alot of my tables, he's pretty aggro and has been active at this table. He's gotten his stack from isolating this retard, I've gotten mine from 2 large hands (AA on blank board played for stacks and a set v. a 50bb stack).

I don't have a great read on his specific tendencies, he seems to be semi-tricky. He probably views me as a Tighter TAG.

200NL 6max

$500 effective

PF: Hero opens $7 UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], all fold to villan in the SB who calls $6. BB dumps, HU to the flop.

($16) Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Villan checks, Hero bets $13, Villan check/raises to $45, Hero...?

I'll post latter action if this generates any discussion.

Re: AA facing heat
 

I think this is a pretty easy call, board is drawy, but not THAT drawheavy, it's baiscally a rainbow flop, and if we 3bet flop we're not getting any action from hands we beat. Furthermore we're pretty deep and this will be a good spot to excercise potcontrol.

Turn and river will be a real bitch to play btw. I guess that's why you made the thread [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: AA facing heat
 

Villan is a TAG. He's on alot of my tables, he's pretty aggro and has been active at this table. He's gotten his stack from isolating this retard, I've gotten mine from 2 large hands (AA on blank board played for stacks and a set v. a 50bb stack).

I don't have a great read on his specific tendencies, he seems to be semi-tricky. He probably views me as a Tighter TAG.

200NL 6max

$500 effective

PF: Hero opens $7 UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], all fold to villan in the SB who calls $6. BB dumps, HU to the flop.

($16) Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Villan checks, Hero bets $13, Villan check/raises to $45, Hero calls $32.

($106) Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Villan bets $88, Hero...?

Re: AA facing heat
 

Since you do not have any great reads on him, I would call the flop raise and then revaluate turn. If he keeps firing I would give him cred and fold, until I know more about him.
One thing that is pretty important is to know his preflop reraising range. Some people like to call with 10/JJ/QQ and raise flop. If you discover that he is one of these types, I´d push obv. But for know I´d say call flop and fold turn if he keeps firing hard.

Re: AA facing heat
 

Salut. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Tough spot this deep but I think you're being taken to V-town. There is obviously no room for anything but fold or call and I think you have to go for fold.

Re: AA facing heat
 

I call the flop raise every time. Any notes on how he plays his sets? I think this is very important. Many TAGS donkbet their sets. This is what it looks like to me, the fact he's firing again.

Re: AA facing heat
 

Salut. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

In case I was being misunderstood: I meant fold on the turn not the flop.

Re: AA facing heat
 

he does not have overpairs here i wouldnt think.

Some people def like to play hands trickier when they are this deep and represent sets (such as myself). At these stakes I would think you call this bet and fold to any more river heat. I really dont think hes triple barrelling you after a turn call and I think he gives up here most of the time on the river.

Note: I very rarely like a turn call fold river line if board doesnt change durastically or anything. I think this is a good spot for it

Re: AA facing heat
 

[ QUOTE ]
I call the flop raise every time. Any notes on how he plays his sets? I think this is very important. Many TAGS donkbet their sets. This is what it looks like to me, the fact he's firing again.

[/ QUOTE ]
no notes, i think he would typically c/r them. i think stacks mean alot here, i think 100bb deep he may c/c flop and c/r turn (or donk it) but chose to c/r the flop due to deeper stacks.

so we have a few folds and a few call turn/fold river.

Re: AA facing heat
 

the problem is, i call turn, and tell myself to fold river... And then c all river anyway.

Re: AA facing heat
 

Salut. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

It is kind of baffling that he chose to donk twice here but I think it's a great line with set when you're this deep. If you were 100BB deep then he'd C/R more often since he would be sure to get it in pretty much always vs QQ+ and let you c-bet when you have overs. This deep his main concern is obviously to build a pot vs overpairs and he couldn't care less about picking up C-bets.

Furthermore he probably expects you to call this turn with an overpair so I think it's too risky of line with anything that you beat. Unless you're known to fold easy.

Re: AA facing heat
 

Ganon,
he c/r-ed the flop.

Re: AA facing heat
 

Salut. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ok It's getting too late for me. Disregard anything I've written in this thread and I'll check it out tomorrow.

Re: AA facing heat
 

Flop call is standard, folding would be too weak. On the turn the only real draw got there (56 for the double gutter) and he's betting large trying to get money in. You could potentially call the turn and fold the river but I think folding turn is best.

Re: AA facing heat
 

still trying to think about this hand, everone tends to think he has a set and i disagree. this is a tuf spot. Its a good baord for him to c/r air and mix in his sets if he's smart. Being that he's TAG and you opened UTG I'd be inclined to take 56 out of his range. Its tuf because he is deepstacked might play something like 56s but I think it is in the very ass end of his range especially oop and if he is straightforward. Another interesting point is that this is a good spot for him to smooth call a large pair outta the blinds. Depends what you know his preflop tendencies to be. I really would not worry about him turning a straight. If you know that he would reraise all his large pairs pf, then take those outta his range as well. So depending on his preflop tendencies you should be able to weight his range toward air/set/overpair. I think we need more info on his preflop tendencies to analyze this properly. This is a good board to checkraise and follow through with a turn bet especially if hes aggro. Thing is you def get bluffed in this spot more than you assume. If he fires that turn with air, I believe hes going to fire a lot of rivers that complete draws. If you call this turn, I do not think you can fold the river to a bet. If hes decent he knows that on the turn you have to be holding an overpair b/c your not floating the flop with air to call the turn again. Basically comes down to how straightforward and aggro he is. If hes not tricky Im with shpanko and you gotta fold this turn. If you call, then call river. But his preflop style will give you enough information as to whether he can have a hand here or not. JJ-KK cud be in his range. Also if he is aggro and thinking wud you ever consider 4 betting this flop small, leaving him a nice amount to push over the top?

Re: AA facing heat
 

fold the turn- I would call turn/fold river if the board were Kxx/Qxx though.

Re: AA facing heat
 

Played perfect so far; as long as you folded this turn.

Re: AA facing heat
 

Tough spot when he bets the turn, folding can't be terrible. I'm not sure I fold yet though.

As others have said it really depends a lot on how often you think he might cold-call JJ-KK in the SB, not to mention if he's potentially tricky enough to cold-call some suited connectors etc and check-raise this sort of board.

I don't see that much has changed on the turn though, and there isn't a huge range we're behind. A straight is unlikely, though obviously the 7 does give him two pair with 78 (also fairly unlikely imo) or perhaps a set if he didn't have one already.

Basically, against an aggressive tricky opponent i think unless you can narrow his SB cold-calling range to low-mid pairs, there's just too much chance we're way, way ahead of a lot of stuff - 66, 99-KK, maaaybe 89s if he'd bet the turn, and maybe a lot of overcard air - to be folding. Folding AA on this board on the turn all the time would possibly be pretty exploitable (but then, so would calling) - what are you ever going to show down with once you call the flop c/r and he bets a low turn card? almost nothing unless you've got a set yourself.. seems like he would have a pretty profitable bluff.

River will be a tough decision if you call and he bets big though, might well be a fold unless you think he can fire three barrels.

Re: AA facing heat
 

[ QUOTE ]
the problem is, i call turn, and tell myself to fold river... And then c all river anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT.

If this were like CO/button vs. blinds...I'm peeling at least another street and might call all the way down. But if orange is considered on the "tighter" side of TAG as he puts it, why would villain be C/R'ing air here against what's probably a pretty tight UTG range? I think I fold turn unless there's some like sick history of C/R bluffing dry flops between us.

Re: AA facing heat
 

I agree that folding turn is best, with shallower stacks I would be happy to get it in, but this deep I think you'll be facing another big bet on the river which I don't think you can profitably call

Re: AA facing heat
 

Villain has a set like 90% of the time here.

Re: AA facing heat
 

I called.

Villan is a TAG. He's on alot of my tables, he's pretty aggro and has been active at this table. He's gotten his stack from isolating this retard, I've gotten mine from 2 large hands (AA on blank board played for stacks and a set v. a 50bb stack).

I don't have a great read on his specific tendencies, he seems to be semi-tricky. He probably views me as a Tighter TAG.

200NL 6max

$500 effective

PF: Hero opens $7 UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], all fold to villan in the SB who calls $6. BB dumps, HU to the flop.

($16) Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Villan checks, Hero bets $13, Villan check/raises to $45, Hero calls $32.

($106) Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Villan bets $88, Hero calls $88

($282)River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Villan bets $200, I fold. eh?

Actually, I was villan. I was planning on making a thread from the opposite point of view to see how people would gauge their reactions differently (ie. they would tell me my play was SPEW HE'S ALWAYS CALLING HERE) or something along those lines. I was actually bluffing and villan folded. nice.

Re: AA facing heat
 

I feel like I just painted some guys fence (both sides), house, washed his cars then got pissed off, then realised I learned something....

I don't even know what I just said..

Re: AA facing heat
 

i might call the turn if i think villain would follow up with a bluff.

i'd fold the river though.'

fwiw, slow playing strong hands against 2+2ers is so so +EV.

Re: AA facing heat
 

orange, is awear of your 3b range and how often would you be 3b here pf with 99-JJ?

Re: AA facing heat
 

[ QUOTE ]
orange, is awear of your 3b range and how often would you be 3b here pf with 99-JJ?

[/ QUOTE ]
i probably would not 3b much any of those. utg raise + deeper stacks + tighter player is meh. does he think i would 3-bet those hands? i'm not tremendously sure, but i think that he seems somewhat competent and can maybe handread a little?

Re: AA facing heat
 

If the villian really is that agressive, if you call the flop c/r I think you have to be prepared to call the turn as well. If he fires river you have to give him credit for a strong hand or a good bluff, either way it's time to let it go. More nitty opponents who don't follow up on their bluffs you should fold turn obv. It's just a tough spot to be in.

Nicely run bluff, I usually can't fire the third barrel because even though I know their range is limited I don't think, at this level, that any of them are good enough to lay down big overpairs.

Re: AA facing heat
 

This is a really tough spot. I'm not sure if it's true, but I have noticed some TAGs check-raising more random hands on the flop like low non-set pocket pairs after the W$WSF fad started. If you just fold flop you're obviously going to be getting bluffed a lot... if you call flop, he's probably firing turn with 90+% of his range.

so, call turn, fold river?