4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

Villain is 24/23/3.27 over 800 hands and has been 3betting light from the button. Have a note on him saying he 3bet's light in position

Hero is UTG+1

Thoughts on 4betting JJ with intention to fold to a shove pre? (imo he will shove AA, KK, QQ and probably AK) If you like the 4bet, hows the betsizing?

Or do you like a cold call more?

On the flop: Push? C/R AI? C/F?


No IQ poker 0.50/1.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop | <font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button <font color="#C00000">Button ($201.75)</font>
SB ($39.30)
BB ($221.00)
UTG ($100.00)
UTG+1 <font color="#C00000">UTG+1 ($104.50)</font>

Hero/UTG+1 is dealt Js Jd

Preflop: , 1 fold, Hero raises to 4.00, Button raises to 12.00, 2 folds, Hero raises to 30.00, Button calls 22.00.

Flop (69.50) K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero?

Thoughts appreciated, sorry for crappy converter

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

Are u saying that he will push the hands listed or is he capable of flat calling with them too? As a standard line id be c/f this flop, seems weak i suppose but if u bet your commited and your not going to be in good shape if the money goes in. Id have reraised more pre, prob to around $38.

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts on 4betting JJ with intention to fold to a shove pre?

[/ QUOTE ]

gross

u wanna 4bet hands your comfortable either snapcalling a shove or instafolding.

folding JJ if he's gonna be shoving AK is a huge boof

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

imo he wont flat AK or QQ, and ive never seen him flat AA or KK but doesnt mean it cant happen.

C/f is pretty weak tight isnt it?

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

Tbh i wouldnt have folded to a shove, his range is too much AK when he shoves.

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

c/f the flop btw

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

[ QUOTE ]
imo he wont flat AK or QQ, and ive never seen him flat AA or KK but doesnt mean it cant happen.

C/f is pretty weak tight isnt it?

[/ QUOTE ]

well you cant really b/f, c/f is slightly better than c/c but not by much -- i dont 4bet this PF very often, it would have to be against a maniac to make it optimal i think

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

The man speaks the truth:

58,218,336 games 0.031 secs 1,878,010,838 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.190% 35.98% 00.21% 20947296 121978.00 { JcJd }
Hand 1: 63.810% 63.60% 00.21% 37027084 121978.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }


Way too much equity to fold once you 4 bet. Your betsizing is good imo.

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

Say we CC his flop bet, then it becomes an easy bet/fold?

Also, shouldnt he be bluffing this flop with basically whatever he got here with, and how many K's are in his range?

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tbh i wouldnt have folded to a shove, his range is too much AK when he shoves.

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize we beat AK PF right?

*misread the post...nevermind.

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

[ QUOTE ]
Say we CC his flop bet, then it becomes an easy bet/fold?

Also, shouldnt he be bluffing this flop with basically whatever he got here with, and how many K's are in his range?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we c/c the flop, all the money is in the pot.

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tbh i wouldnt have folded to a shove, his range is too much AK when he shoves.

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize we beat AK PF right?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes. hence not folding, im not sure we have that much eqity though, pretty sure we cant assume he's pushing AK every time. FWIW this is my first 4bet on this table

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

Sorry that was supposed to be cold call his preflop bet, then it becomes an easy bet/fold?

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry that was supposed to be cold call his preflop bet, then it becomes an easy bet/fold?

[/ QUOTE ]


The pot is already 60, if we bet, we can't fold.

Even if we bet half pot...are we really going to fold getting 5 to 1 odds?

*I can't read lol. I don't think it's easy b/f. It depends on bet sizing by villian...we're going to want to show our hand down as cheaply as possible. If villian calls, we c/f turn probably...if he raises flop bet, most likely a b/f against all but the most aggressive guys.

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

if we cold call his 3bet pf, instead of 3betting then the pot is 25ish.

Also thought id ask, as played: if its all undercards on the flop i assume most people would say to push right?

if this is the case, then doesnt it all depend on how often he is flatting with AK or KQ on our 4bet?

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

what is the play here given opponent? Most of you call the reraise pre and check raise the flop? Do you play AA the same?

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

[ QUOTE ]
what is the play here given opponent? Most of you call the reraise pre and check raise the flop? Do you play AA the same?

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe the typical plan when someone is 3betting light is to call and check/raise all in with strong made hands and strong draws. So this flop would be a check/push with AK, AA, KK, A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4s5s, 6s7s, maybe KQ, any set, the idea being they can either fold all their TP type hands, thus losing equity vs all the draws, or they can call with all their tp type hands and lose to the overpairs, TPTK, set type hands.

Re: 4bet JJ OOP against agressive button
 

With your read of villian we have to shove this PF. You're miles ahead of his range and can't really make a mistake. When you 4bet small you're gonna have a lot of ugly flops.

As played if he is aggro after the flop, then I'm c/c all in. Don't like it but not much else you can do at that point.