3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

Villain is solid TAG, likely 2p2. Not a ton of history. He runs like 19/17/3. Obv. the only real hands that beat me on this river are QQ/AQ. Snap-call? Fold? Rest of hand?

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $257
UTG: $353.30
Hero (MP): $244.75
CO: $222.60
BTN: $205.20
SB: $66.55

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, CO folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $24</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls $16

Flop: ($51) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($51) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $36</font>, BTN calls $36

River: ($123) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $78</font>,

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

dislike pf . 4bet nearly always

as played, meh, tough to put him on a solid range so i probably look him up just for that.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

would he really flat call the turn with AQ/QQ? Both the A and Q are clubs so he can't have a FD if that's the case, and thus he'd need to raise to protect his hand, and to get more money in. I think I call and expect to see AK, possibly with the Kc.

Also I agree with Fletch that you should just 4-bet pre and get it in there.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

snap. pf is puke

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

I call. Your hand is underrepresented and with villains stats I don't expect him to show up with a flush very often.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

4bet with a drawing hand? Seriously?

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

meh meh I dont really like calling for a chop at best.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

call river, please shove PF

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

His line is really weird...

I don't hate preflop if you play creatively post-flop.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

Anyone saying auto 4 bet preflop every time without exception always always is tilting me. Are you guys never check/raising ace and king high flops as bluffs? If you always 4bet AK check/raising either of those flops you'll be repping such a narrow range it's meh.

As played I'd snap call. He has TcTx I'd imagine. I don't know what else he could have unless he's tarp happy. I really have no idea what had he's going to show up with except a pair+club draw or 2 pair peeling for a safe card to make another bet in position. If he's a weak 2p2er I might fold.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

i said nearly always [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

After he checked behind the flop, I don`t like leading turn here. The Qc is a dangerous card =&gt; I am likely to check/call here and play a pot as small as possible.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone saying auto 4 bet preflop every time without exception always always is tilting me.

[/ QUOTE ]

not saying flat calling 3-bets w/AK is wrong, but if you have a decent 4-bet strategy, there is nothing wrong w/ALWAYS 4-betting AK.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

I don't really ever c/r A/K high flops in 3-bet pots, so no I don't think it's bad that I always 4-bet AKs in this spot vs this villain. And once again, call the river.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

of course this is a snapcall.

curious why you don't just lead the river though.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

Yeah betting is ok to try and get slim value from KK/AT/KQ(?) but I think KcXx and TT etc might bluff at this a decent amount so checking is ok. But yeah I think betting is prob better.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
of course this is a snapcall.

curious why you don't just lead the river though.

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what range do you think he calls with?

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
of course this is a snapcall.

curious why you don't just lead the river though.

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what range do you think he calls with?

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Maybe it's too thin...was thinking basically what shpanko outlined though (KK, KQ, AT, as well as stuff that beats you ). I think he bets flop or raises turn with most of what you're behind to though (not always obviously, but enough). Still, maybe it's too thin.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

I called river and don't think it's even close. Not sure why I can't stop posting losing hands. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
I called river and don't think it's even close. Not sure why I can't stop posting losing hands. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Tc/Tx or KcJx one time?

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

call the river, i don't really hate PF all that much (though i agree that i typically 4b more often).

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
call the river, i don't really hate PF all that much (though i agree that i typically 4b more often).

[/ QUOTE ]


same thoughts here. preflop is ok as long as you arent just folding every time you miss

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you have a decent 4-bet strategy, there is nothing wrong w/ALWAYS 4-betting AK.

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yes there is

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

i think i 4bet PF although the call isn't that bad if you are c/r shoving alot postflop.

as played call the river

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you have a decent 4-bet strategy, there is nothing wrong w/ALWAYS 4-betting AK.

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yes there is

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ehh...explain please.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you have a decent 4-bet strategy, there is nothing wrong w/ALWAYS 4-betting AK.

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yes there is

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ehh...explain please.

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Yeah seriously. I think I 4b AK every time I am 3b. There is nothing with 4-betting it every time IF you have a balanced 4-betting strategy.

Edit- I think its definately best to 4-be when OOP.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone saying auto 4 bet preflop every time without exception always always is tilting me. Are you guys never check/raising ace and king high flops as bluffs? If you always 4bet AK check/raising either of those flops you'll be repping such a narrow range it's meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

I literally can't even remember the last time I c/r an Ace high flop in a 3 bet pot. I just don't do it. It's not even part of my game. I (95% of the time I do it all the time) bet any flop in a 3 bet pot. Especially Ace high flops, with or without an ace. In my eyes I get more value from hands that way, I often win the pot on the flop, as well as when I hit my ace with big hands it will cost him alot if he a) doens't have an ace or b) played a weaker ace. just to find out if I have an ace or not.

IMO you lose alot less when in a 3 bet pot by cbetting on Ace high flop vs c/r bluffing. You can often win the pot with a cbet and you can fold to a raise. I would much rather have to make villain commit alot of chips on a bluff or to find out if I do have an ace or not, vs me being the one doing so.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

I can see calling preflop in position, but OOP this is a 4-bet every time IMO.

As for the river, we don't beat much but I just can't see folding since we basically have to put him on a slowplayed monster to do so. I call and expect to see a split/bluff quite often.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you have a decent 4-bet strategy, there is nothing wrong w/ALWAYS 4-betting AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes there is

[/ QUOTE ]

ehh...explain please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you have a decent 4-bet strategy, there is nothing wrong w/ALWAYS 4-betting AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes there is

[/ QUOTE ]

ehh...explain please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah seriously. I think I 4b AK every time I am 3b. There is nothing with 4-betting it every time IF you have a balanced 4-betting strategy.

Edit- I think its definately best to 4-be when OOP.

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Always 4betting AK is like handing cash to people out there who dont 3bet hands like JJ and AK. They are hard to spot and there arent really many of them but "ALWAYS 4betting AK" has something inheritly wrong with it because pf aggression is often opponent-dependant so I decided to mention it.

add: even if you have a very well thought out and balanced 3betting/4betting strategy you just simply have to dump the strat-table sometimes and against some players.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

Preflop - I prefer a 4bet because given villains image he doesn't seem like his range is much beyond AA-JJ,AK-AQ (if his 3bet range is wider I can see an argument for calling and getting fancy on the flop)

Postflop looks good assuming you call.

I sometimes lead the flop if i have a crazy image, because it looks fishy and hands like KK,QQ,TT will surprisingly stick around for 2 bets.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

Preflop - How often has villain 3bet preflop? Break this down further into with what frequency and more importantly in what position (blinds or button) does villain 3 bet preflop. Then we can decide whether to push preflop or not.

Post flop - As played its a snap call on the river. You've checked obv hoping to c/rai on the flop. When villain doesn't oblige you've led the turn which is fine. Now call the river, your ahead often enough methinks.

If villain has you crushed on the flop w/ AA, JJ he has played this hand poorly. Only hand I'm worried about is AQ.

nb. I don't think a donkbet on the flop is out of the question here.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

um bet the flop

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

Fold river.

TT and KK need to be hugely discounted because most people won't bet them on them on the river. QQ/AQ make perfect sense. You also see AJ/JJ here occasionally.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold river.

TT and KK need to be hugely discounted because most people won't bet them on them on the river. QQ/AQ make perfect sense. You also see AJ/JJ here occasionally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. I don't understand why everyone is so up for calling the river. He doesn't have like TT or Ax here imo.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

Yeah fold riv unless you think this is Ax alot, which it probably isn't

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

What are his "Bet river %" stats? &gt;20 consider a call. &lt;20 fold.

Re: 3bet Pot OOP w/ AKs
 

another vote for looking him up.