AA sb vs button
 

Villain is a TAG running something like 16/12/3

Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

CO: $211.70
BTN: $283.46
Hero (SB): $198
BB: $173
UTG: $258.66
MP: $364.20

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
3 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $8</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $24</font>, BB calls $22, BTN calls $16

Flop: ($72) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $40</font>, BB folds, BTN calls $40

Turn: ($152) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero ?

check or bet how much ?

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

Shoves

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shoves

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What does he call the flop with that we're still ahead of that calls the turn?

If we're going to get it in, we might as well check and get it in on the river right?

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

i like check

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

check ... c/c river

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

i check. if hes floating let him fire at the pot.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Shoves

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What does he call the flop with that we're still ahead of that calls the turn?

If we're going to get it in, we might as well check and get it in on the river right?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's he shoving that we beat if we check? So you're c/f turn and betting river if checked to?

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

shove.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

If I have a read that he is an habitual floater, (e.g. low fold cbet, high AF), I check call or c/r.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

I was gonna go with the check people here as he always has some kind of made hand here, but seeing as how he's a nit he's gonna check jacks and AQ behind here, so the only think we gain from checking and calling is getting stacked when has a better hand and him getting a free shot at the river when he has a worse.

So I like a shove, let's hope he thinks we're full of it.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

bet more on the flop and this becomes easier

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Shoves

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What does he call the flop with that we're still ahead of that calls the turn?

If we're going to get it in, we might as well check and get it in on the river right?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's he shoving that we beat if we check? So you're c/f turn and betting river if checked to?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the spot is tough. My point is this though, if you want to get it all in the middle and we're behind, then it doesn't matter if we push on the turn or river. However, if we're ahead on the Turn... what hands does the Villain likely have? AQ, JJ, TT... All of these hands have to be scared of the King on the turn. So why should be bet it, if we're somewhat more likely to get another bet out of the Villain if we check behing on the turn?

As for what to do on the turn if we bet, we obviously have to call. What to do if we check behind on the turn and Villain pushes??? I'm not sure. Do you think Villain would ever turn a hand like TT into a bluff here? Does he ever push-value bet AQ? But to be honest, I think we could fold against a straight foward player.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
bet more on the flop and this becomes easier

[/ QUOTE ]

But more expensive when you have AJ and not AA. I don't think betting much more is good long term in re-raised pots, but maybe people disagree?

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Shoves

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What does he call the flop with that we're still ahead of that calls the turn?

If we're going to get it in, we might as well check and get it in on the river right?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's he shoving that we beat if we check? So you're c/f turn and betting river if checked to?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the spot is tough. My point is this though, if you want to get it all in the middle and we're behind, then it doesn't matter if we push on the turn or river. However, if we're ahead on the Turn... what hands does the Villain likely have? AQ, JJ, TT... All of these hands have to be scared of the King on the turn. So why should be bet it, if we're somewhat more likely to get another bet out of the Villain if we check behing on the turn?

As for what to do on the turn if we bet, we obviously have to call. What to do if we check behind on the turn and Villain pushes??? I'm not sure. Do you think Villain would ever turn a hand like TT into a bluff here? Does he ever push-value bet AQ? But to be honest, I think we could fold against a straight foward player.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't read good. i thought we were in position and heads-up on the flop. not sure what i was thinking. i'll reread and repost.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Shoves

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What does he call the flop with that we're still ahead of that calls the turn?

If we're going to get it in, we might as well check and get it in on the river right?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's he shoving that we beat if we check? So you're c/f turn and betting river if checked to?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the spot is tough. My point is this though, if you want to get it all in the middle and we're behind, then it doesn't matter if we push on the turn or river. However, if we're ahead on the Turn... what hands does the Villain likely have? AQ, JJ, TT... All of these hands have to be scared of the King on the turn. So why should be bet it, if we're somewhat more likely to get another bet out of the Villain if we check behing on the turn?

As for what to do on the turn if we bet, we obviously have to call. What to do if we check behind on the turn and Villain pushes??? I'm not sure. Do you think Villain would ever turn a hand like TT into a bluff here? Does he ever push-value bet AQ? But to be honest, I think we could fold against a straight foward player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the spot is really that tough. The K is a good double barrel card, villain is a nit and knows this, so if we are gonna double barrel when it hits and we don't have it, we need to double barrel when we have it.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't read good. i thought we were in position and heads-up on the flop. not sure what i was thinking. i'll reread and repost.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was confused when replying to your last post, apparently this is why. Anticipating your re-post [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]


As for what to do on the turn if we bet, we obviously have to call. What to do if we check behind on the turn and Villain pushes??? I'm not sure. Do you think Villain would ever turn a hand like TT into a bluff here? Does he ever push-value bet AQ? But to be honest, I think we could fold against a straight foward player.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're oop, so no checking behind here. If we check the turn, we might face two bets before showdown. I think before making any decision here, it's one of those spots where you have to decide whether against that opponent, you want to get it in or not. Then you pick your line.

If villain is an habitual floater, I will want to get my money in and might check/call both turn and river or even ch/raise ai turn. If he's very ABC and nitty, I might even just check fold here. He will check behind all hands we beat and bet with his sets/2p etc...

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

after rereading the OP Hand. I think leading the turn is also good, since we'd use that card as a bluffing card quite a bit. But I don't hate checking and betting the river, although I think that our hand is pretty transparent as AK or better.

I guess it still depends on what we think Villain will do with QA and TT-JJ if we lead the turn vs leading the river if it gets checked behind.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

This is a bit of the suk. He doesn't have AK here which is what we need him to have to make shoving fine.

Shoving folds out worse hands imo. I would check and let some worse hands hang themselves.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

anyone dig a check raise on this flop?

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
anyone dig a check raise on this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. It looks waaaay too strong and the flop is gonna get checked through most of the time.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
anyone dig a check raise on this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. It looks waaaay too strong and the flop is gonna get checked through most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea but it's very unlikely that giving a free card on this board can hurt us since it's so dry and we can extract value on the turn from hands we could not have on the flop.

i'm betting this flop 98% of the time, just a thought.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

c/f I think if I get bashed here I'll add more later

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
anyone dig a check raise on this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not at all.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

[ QUOTE ]
c/f I think if I get bashed here I'll add more later

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is actually not a bad line.
AK is not in his range really, so that leaves it much more skewed to

- sets(12 combos)
- TT/JJ (12 combo's who don't bet too often if we check)
- occasionally AQ (6 combos, but less likely they have anything - who also doesn't bet too often if we check)

and I would put QQ/KK as much more likely out of that range, and way way more likely of those hands that bet if we check on the turn.

Re: Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold\'em Cash Game, 6 Players
 

yes, I agree with c/f unless hes a floater, if he checks then decide whether or not to c/c or bet depending on river and if u think his value betting range here is wider than his calling range (it prob isnt so id bet)