Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

Hi all,

I had an idea - not sure if it has been discussed before.

Would any of you top cash game players be interested in playing on the European only sites? They are stuffed full of fish and often have high stakes tables available. 25/50, 50/100 and 100/200 are generally busy during evening times.

What if you were to ghost me (I am from Ireland) over Skype. I put up the funds to play and you put up your share with another reputable player as a holding facility. Following winning sessions we cash out or come to an agreement.

Benefits for you: You have access to new juicy games that you could previously not access being in the States.

Benefits for me: I get to learn from top pros and develop my game.

The point of the post is that you could now have access to a wide range of very fishy games. NB: most euro sites are an extension of a sportsbook and therefore attract a huge amount of gamblers, rather than poker experts.

Food for thought?

PM me if you would like to discuss.


(Mods: Please remove this post if it infringes on any of your T&C's. It is meant as a possible tool for top players but if you feel it is inappropriate then feel free to delete. TY.)

NB: If players consider this unethical please let me know and I will remove the post. Perhaps ghosting like this is a bit below the belt for other players?

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

Ethical and risk free IMO.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

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Ethical and risk free IMO.

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L.O.L

I like the idea...but I think its wrong !

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

Ross, which sites are you referring too?

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

Ladbrokes, Everest and Betfair I guess

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

what sites?

Its a lot harder to play HU and 3 handed when you r not actually clicking the buttons imo.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

I think any difficulties like that could be quickly overcome... particularly playing 6-max. Also, having playing regularly on almost all Euro sites I am already very familiar with all software.

I imagine we would also have some test sessions on the mini stakes to build highly effective communication foundations between ghoster and player.

HU could be problematic but certainly 3 handed+ could be very profitable. I believe the bulk of profits would come from multi handed games anyway where there are less poker speciliasts and simply more gamblers.

There are a number of high liquidity sites with very active games, e.g. ipoker network, Ladbrokes, Party Poker, Everest, Betfair. All of these have very juicy high stakes games infested with fish.

To be honest I am surprised this idea has not been proposed previously...or perhaps it is actually something players already do?

If anyone would like to PM me to discuss in detail please feel free.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

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what sites?

Its a lot harder to play HU and 3 handed when you r not actually clicking the buttons imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if i'm wrong but couldn't you take this one step further and remote access his PC and then click the buttons yourself?

I'm actually surprised nobody is offering a service of a European computer being used for the sole use of remote access and US players using them. Or maybe it's just a silly idea?

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

I would be willing to do something like this for no profit. I would not be able to put up any funds. PM me if interested.

Mark.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

The remote access for US players is not the problem. Someone could just set up a proxy in Europe and then the US players could use their own machines. The problem is a Europe address.

Mark

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

OP you need your head testing, why would you wanna open up our pool of fish to the US.

I think its wrong of course [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

over/under until funds seized?

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

Access to ghosters thoughts and play processes would in turn open up their fish pool to me!

+EV for me and the ghosters

-EV for fish worldwide

I am still undecided on the ethics of the whole project, though I am leaning towards it not being a problem.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

I believe ghosting is allowed by most sites. There are many instances of team play ongoing that are tolerated by both players and site operators.

I'll take the over ;-)

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

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I am still undecided on the ethics of the whole project, though I am leaning towards it not being a problem.

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Leaning on the issue eh? I'll straighten ya up - it's 100% unethical.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

Didn't you say it was ethical in your first post Lloyd?

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't you say it was ethical in your first post Lloyd?

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Wow. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

You didn't get the sarcasm.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

Come on Lloyd, u studied English in college, u should know u need some form of punctuation or exclamation to infer sarcasm - particularly as a first reply to the post! ;-)

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

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Come on Lloyd, u studied English in college, u should know u need some form of punctuation or exclamation to infer sarcasm - particularly as a first reply to the post! ;-)

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I would suggest that I have the worst grammar and spelling of an English graduate since, well, the dawn of time.


On a serious note though, how could this not be unethical?

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

This isn't ethically that far off from having MDMA coach me and tell me what to do.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

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This isn't ethically that far off from having MDMA coach me and tell me what to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

During a coaching session will he tell you what to do for every single action you take? Will he coach you for every action you take every single time you log on to play for the whole period your account is active?

EDIT: Would you consider it unethical if you got into a grudge match situation with someone (the first HSNL name I thought of was recallme); but during the match you actually are playing Krantz (second name I thought of) after recallme sold him the use of the account for it?

Obv, the above is 100% hypotethical but it should be clear the point I am trying to make.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

Haha, ok grammar police ban lifted m8 ;-).

You are probably right about it being unethical. However, in a way it is a lot like many of the training sites. In particular doesn't Real Poker Training ghost students on both cash games and tournaments?

It is obv entirely different to either multi-accounting or colluding. In a way you are simply creating an account on a site that a US player could not previously play on and acting as thier asssitant to press the buttons. Really it is just an extension of the blind player (Hal Lebrowski - sp?) in the WSOP this year with his assistant calling out the cards to him. Take it a step further and pretend a paralysed player genius wanted to enter the competition - persumably he would use a similar assistant to physically place the chips in the pot for him and follow his action commands?

What I would consider unethical is selling your account to a pro or using your current screename / account which your opponnents may already have notes on and experience against.

Essentially I would have thought it is simply providing a legitamite service. no?

Thoughts?

R.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This isn't ethically that far off from having MDMA coach me and tell me what to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

During a coaching session will he tell you what to do for every single action you take? Will he coach you for every action you take every single time you log on to play for the whole period your account is active?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea, ask MDMA. It's still not far off.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

[ QUOTE ]

EDIT: Would you consider it unethical if you got into a grudge match situation with someone (the first HSNL name I thought of was recallme); but during the match you actually are playing Krantz (second name I thought of) after recallme sold him the use of the account for it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I would consider this unethical.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I am still undecided on the ethics of the whole project, though I am leaning towards it not being a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Leaning on the issue eh? I'll straighten ya up - it's 100% unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Haha, ok grammar police ban lifted m8 ;-).

You are probably right about it being unethical. However, in a way it is a lot like many of the training sites. In particular doesn't Real Poker Training ghost students on both cash games and tournaments?

It is obv entirely different to either multi-accounting or colluding. In a way you are simply creating an account on a site that a US player could not previously play on and acting as thier asssitant to press the buttons. Really it is just an extension of the blind player (Hal Lebrowski - sp?) in the WSOP this year with his assistant calling out the cards to him. Take it a step further and pretend a paralysed player genius wanted to enter the competition - persumably he would use a similar assistant to physically place the chips in the pot for him and follow his action commands?

What I would consider unethical is selling your account to a pro or using your current screename / account which your opponnents may already have notes on and experience against.

Essentially I would have thought it is simply providing a legitamite service. no?

Thoughts?

R.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the most basic level, should there be NO responsibillity or expectation that one observes a site's terms and conditions when opening an account? Is it not reasonable that the details regeistered with a site are true and accurate and the actual account holder is the one pushing the buttons?

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

I am not talking about breaking any rules. The intention is that everything would be fully above board.

There are ghosting training sites that currently exist operating fully within each sites T&C's. e.g. Real Poker Training.

These sites are even endorsed by many of the big poker forums.

It is intended as a way around the international gaming law T&C's rather than a way around site actual gameplay T&C's that might infringe on other player's ability to play a fair game. In a way it is actually a benefit for the sites too as they get more high action players on their sites.

The player restrictions are based on law (ban on US players) rather than gameplay, I guess that's my point here.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

NB: I am not promoting breaking any laws or T&C's of any sites or international laws. The thread is merely intended to explore possible legal and ethical options. The idea spawned as a possible extension to current training programs.

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

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ethical and risk free imo

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Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

Noone you dont know personally is going to agree to this, because if you win big, there is a decent % chance that you will just run away with $50000+

Re: Ghosting Euro Poker Rooms Idea - Access to new juicy games!
 

That's certainly a reasonable concern. I guess a rapport and trust would be built up. Also there would be obvious restrictions put on $$$ cashout's / transfers etc so it is reasonable to presume that anyone who did partake in it would have very limited liability. Extreme example: play for 1 hour win $5K. If that $5K is not in their account within the agreed amount of time then they have lost 1 hour of their time.

It is also the reason I proposed to put up the playing funds provided they put up their funds with a 3rd party we both trust... so if we lose I could recover the losses.

I thank you for your point though, it could certainly be a concern for all parties and one that would need to be very strictly enforced.