Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

Villain is 54/28 and kinda aggro (1.3) but mostly passive. I have the jesus seat on him and have been ramming and jamming on him incessently with little benefit but good for establishing an image (me likey when the bad players choose to only gamble with me). Those saying fold pf plz dont post.

My image at the table is something around 35/29/10

If I shove, it is around $180 more.

Who minraises, who makes a goofy smallish raise, and who goes for the kill?

Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $289.25
SB: $201
BB: $343.55
UTG: $971.70

Pre-Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $4</font>, Hero calls $4, SB folds, BB calls $2

Flop: ($13) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $10</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $10

Turn: ($33) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $27</font>, UTG calls $27

River: ($87) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $60</font>

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

don't minraise imo, it looks too strong with the AQJd out there, i prefer shoving here

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

goofy smallish raise

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

shoving looks weaker than any other line imo.

edit: except fold/call lol.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

i would just jam, the guys a moran.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

135

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

He's got Joker [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T :diamond. Easy fold.


Seriously, shoving looks weakest though I doubt you get paid off very often.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

With your stats being what they are I think you should get away woth shoving here enough of the time.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

just shove, he's an idiot and if he's calling any raise here he'll talk himself into calling a shove.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

i dont get it, why would you only want to raise to $135 or w/e instead of just shoving? do you think he calls with a lighter range? or do you think hes not calling a shove with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] but will call another $75?

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
goofy smallish raise

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. 140ish

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

Shoving is kind of an overbet (we have 250 behind) and it might scare him away. I think I like a small raise.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont get it, why would you only want to raise to $135 or w/e instead of just shoving? do you think he calls with a lighter range? or do you think hes not calling a shove with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] but will call another $75?

[/ QUOTE ]

if i make it 135 i am liable to represent just about any good diamond value raising, and figure to get paid off a higher %

another thing to consider is that this player is prolly playing on close to case money

that said, given all the info available i do think its a fairly close decision

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

i think shoving is better, given your image and how bad your opponent is. not that its a slam dunk or anything, but i think it will net the most on average vs. this guy in this situation. he probably either calls or he doesn't, nomatter what you do.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

shove it in, hope he has the T

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

i should add that in most hands of my own that i can remember where a bad player took this line, they were almost always:

a)bluffing
b)never folding

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
i should add that in most hands of my own that i can remember where a bad player took this line, they were almost always:

a)bluffing
b)never folding


[/ QUOTE ]

This is basically what I was thinking. He either has next to nothing and will fold for any amount or he has a decent flush and is never folding. I would just shove.

I really don't think this is ever some marginal diamond that will look you up if you raise small.

edit: if he bet like 40 I would like a small raise more, but his bet size looks more like straight value with a good diamond or a bluff.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

I like shoving here.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like shoving here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

I like shoving because of his line and that he's not a solid player so he would think that he must call a shove w/ the T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] because he has the second nuts.

EDIT: Didn't see stack sizes. I guess I'd maybe raise to $150 or so. But I still think a shove may be best as I think it looks weaker.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

I raise to 135 unless I have seen villain stack off really easily. Generally i don't think you get paid off enough times for a shove to be more profitable than a smallish raise.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

I like the 135-140 raise a lot, he will probably shove

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

i'm curious to know what is the worst hand that people who are advocating a small raise would call with in this situation. are you really calling with a 9, expecting a donk taking this line to have some trash diamond here on a regular basis?

i don't really even think its close, honestly.
a) we have the nuts
b) villain is a retard
c) we have an agressive image, and have been agressive towards villain
d) villain is taking a strong line

that adds up to instashove for me.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

I agree that an overbet shove prob wont get paid enough to make it more profitable than say a 140 raise,

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

betting 140 out of our 250 stack looks weaker than a shove? I don't think so. If we roughly guess that our 250 shove gets called 20% (I know its high, but for example sake), then then 140 bet needs to be called 16% more often to make the same profit. I just don't think that the case. Shove it in.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

I'd shove, if your image is nutty in his eyes and he spews then he'll look you up with a 6d or something sometimes. Because ZOMG he has has a flush!!! These types of players do not like folding and in this spot his hand in his eyes is either a flush or not a flush. He's not thinking about 2nd, 3rd, or 4th nut flush.

In order for a push to be worse than a small raise he would need to fold more than 60% of his calling range of the small raise.

The people who are advocating a raise to 135 or so, you think he's 2.5 times more likely to call that raise than a shove?

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
betting 140 out of our 250 stack looks weaker than a shove? I don't think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the case if villain is a thinking player. Villain in this hand is not.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]

In order for a push to be worse than a small raise he would need to fold more than 60% of his calling range of the small raise.

The people who are advocating a raise to 135 or so, you think he's 2.5 times more likely to call that raise than a shove?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the method you want to use to determine best raise size.

fwiw ive seen villains as described bluff the 4th diamond in spots like this (shoving still &gt; minraising bc if they are folding they are doing so for any amount)

if he has the diamond i doubt hes bet/folding in this spot vs you so just stick it in

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

Totally arbitrary but minraise prob has very similar ev to shove. And since you have been playing back at him a ton maybe it is higher than 30% Again totally arbitrary having not seen dynamics.
90% of 60
30% 180

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

results: hero shoves

villain runs his 100 second timebank down to 5 seconds and folds

wtf kjladhflkasdflkjh%$^%$&amp;^%$%^$#^asdfasdfFASDFAS DF

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
villain runs his 100 second timebank down to 5 seconds

[/ QUOTE ]

while hero is screaming 'callcallcallplscallplsplsplscallplscallcallcallca llcall'

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

166

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
betting 140 out of our 250 stack looks weaker than a shove? I don't think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the case if villain is a thinking player. Villain in this hand is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isnt the fact that our villain isnt a thinking player strengthening the case for getting all the money in? I just dont think he is Twice as likely to call a small raise than a shove.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
just shove, he's an idiot and if he's calling any raise here he'll talk himself into calling a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

shove all day.. especially with your image... Nitty image- possible just raise small..

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

You forgot to type "You know, I really don't think you have a diamond" before shoving. That works every time.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
You forgot to type "You know, I really don't think you have a diamond" before shoving. That works every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol maybe if your opponents are retarded

my first reaction is shove but i liked the discussion. i still think shove is probably best with your typical clayton image though

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

Your bet needs to reflect your crazy image. $155.55.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

Given your history and read on villain it's a shove imo.
I think to him it's not a big difference if you bet 140 or shove. If he has a 7d or better he's calling imo because you've been pushing him around etc.

Re: Straight out of Sklansky, boom headshot edition (200NL)
 

Clayton,

Call.

Sincerly,
Adam