330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

330$ tourney at Caesars Palace, final table 5 handed.
blinds are 2000/1000/200

There is one big stack and 4 others with more or less the same amount of chips.


folded to Hero in the SB 45,000 chips
BB has me covered.

Hero has K7s.

BB so far has played very solid poker preflop but made some tricky play post flop, he is good.

I took dow few pots lately rasing preflop, my image at this point is LAG while in reality I am fairly TAG.

What's the play here?

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

I think payout structure is important here. I'm positive pushing is +cEV but something else might be more.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

payout is very skewed to first place, 5th takes 750$ while first 6500$ and second 3800$.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

We are pretty deep here, too deep for pushing IMO, what wrong with a standard 2.5x raise with what is almost certainly best hand right now?

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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We are pretty deep here, too deep for pushing IMO, what wrong with a standard 2.5x raise with what is almost certainly best hand right now?

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Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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We are pretty deep here, too deep for pushing IMO, what wrong with a standard 2.5x raise with what is almost certainly best hand right now?

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We have 20BBs in a BVB situation. He has us covered and we're on a money bubble. Basically any good player will resteal with a sickeningly wide range here, and OP stated the BB's good. So what's your plan after raising to 2.5x? To bet/fold or bet/call? I hate bet/folding because he's so likely to resteal. I hate bet/calling, because our hand just doesn't do that well, even against a range ripe with resteals.

Open folding simply isn't an option because we could turn a profit shoving K7s even if we turn it face up before we push. Everything else seems to be worse, so I'd just jam.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

i probably just call

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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i probably just call

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Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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i probably just call

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I hope Exit's actually good at poker because I generally agree with him.

Play to a pf raise? And if so, what do we do on flops that don't include two spades, a K or a 7?

If he doesn't raise, what lines do we take on flops that we miss?

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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i probably just call

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What hands are you guys raising with here then? And are you raising with any hands that will fold to a 3-bet?

I'm just thinking that we are deep enough here that we should be able to raise/fold with some of our range because we can protect by including enough hands which kill his restealing range...

Am I talking rubbish here?

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

Stacks are such that he can conceivably three-bet/fold if we make it 5k and so I really wouldn't want to raise fold anything relatively strong here and I think raise-calling OOP is madness.

As it's live and the guy will have had position on me for some time, I think more or less any line could be OK, depending on our BvB history and my image (particularly whether he has reason to think that I'm worried about the bubble)

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

Yeah, calling seems good. I'd call a lot of Ax hands here also.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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Yeah, calling seems good. I'd call a lot of Ax hands here also.

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I like a complete, but I would probably open overbet push Ax, as it is cEV+ with Ax and villain is the chip leader. With Ax, you could also raise call if villain is aggressive.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

this is just an awkward stack size

too big to jam

making 2.5-3 times just opens you up for him to come over the top

i just flat this and play aggressive on the flop -

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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Yeah, calling seems good. I'd call a lot of Ax hands here also.

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I like a complete, but I would probably open overbet push Ax, as it is cEV+ with Ax and villain is the chip leader. With Ax, you could also raise call if villain is aggressive.

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cEV+ may not neccesarily equal $EV+ in this situation though given that we are on a pay bubble. I'm no expert on such matters though and we would need all stacks and the details of each paying position to properly work it out.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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i just flat this and play aggressive on the flop -

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What's yer line if he preflop raises then - complete/fold?

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

We're ITM and the structure is really steep is what we know. 5th is $750, 2ns $3800, 1st is $6500.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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Yeah, calling seems good. I'd call a lot of Ax hands here also.

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I like a complete, but I would probably open overbet push Ax, as it is cEV+ with Ax and villain is the chip leader. With Ax, you could also raise call if villain is aggressive.

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cEV+ may not neccesarily equal $EV+ in this situation though given that we are on a pay bubble. I'm no expert on such matters though and we would need all stacks and the details of each paying position to properly work it out.

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You are right. With final table payouts, there is more reason to limp and maybe keep the pot small.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

i really dont think people resteal live in BvB situations as much as we would like to think. Live players are bad and passive for the most part. I probably make it 3bb and play from there.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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Live players are bad and passive for the most part, especially for a tight, solid villain. I probably make it 3bb and play from there.

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Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

Limping (planning to fold to any raise), open folding, and making it 3x (and folding to a shove) are all viable options. Not really a tough spot imo.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

except for open folding

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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i probably just call

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I hope Exit's actually good at poker because I generally agree with him.


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he's the original wafflecrushee obv good.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

LIVE is a huge element in this hand.

2.5x-fold/c-bet > limp-fold/c-bet > all other options

I think history between the blinds is important here. How does villain see you?

Devo

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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LIVE is a huge element in this hand.

2.5x-fold/c-bet > limp-fold/c-bet > all other options

I think history between the blinds is important here. How does villain see you?

Devo

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Man, I don't know. You've got a [censored] more experience live than I have, but I think raising small, OOP, agaisnt the chipleader, who we're told is good, with an otherwise even distribution of stacks, and really steep payout structure, and stacks that mean that he can raise-fold fairly comfortably, is just begging to get raped. Obviously, there is lots of relevant and crucial information that is missing from OP and perhaps LIVE does indeed mean that we can play exploitably without fear of being exploited, but I really think that raising 2.5x in this spot with this hand is fundamentally so bad that we should avoid it (in a vacuum). We're only happy when we take pot down instantly and that's almost never going to happen unless we have the best hand by a margin. The read we have is that he'll probably call with a wide range and he then has every advantage except is holding - which is probably the least important factor when ours is relatively weak.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

call or fold depending on how agressive he is on limpers

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

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except for open folding

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I really don't see anything wrong with open folding K7 with this stack. Obviously it's going to be ahead of a random hand in the bb especially suited, but you're still going to be in an awkward position no matter how you decide to play it. If villain is half decent which I'm guessing he is with this description,"BB so far has played very solid poker preflop but made some tricky play post flop, he is good," then he is going to be raising limps with a super wide range (quite possibly any 2) and if we decide to 3x or more into him he can certainly call us in pos. with a wide range and now we're stuck playing a raised pot oop with K7 vs. someone who can bust us.

I bet ActionJeff would open muck.

Re: 330$ live - final table K7s vs chip leader
 

I think 3x+ and call are best options, depends on the villain. With this type of stack size, against a stronger aggro villain I am still playing tight in small blind but also limping in with playable hands like this (and some big hands. K8o or w/e would be a fold unless bb was weak. SB play is COMPLETELY dependent upon the big blind and how he reacts to raises. Solid doesn't give enough info to create an appropriate strategy vs. him.

-Jeff