10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

Capper just sat down, so no read. That being said, I can't think of a hand in a capping range that will call a bet that I beat, but I can't think of a hand in his capping range that beats me that plays this so passively. Thoughts?

I'm sure there's a better way to play it. I'm guessing b/f river? Thoughts on the turn play?

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 caps</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (7.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP3 checks.

River: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

If you are assuming this guy is solid then I think your logic is reasonable in the way you played the turn and the river.

But I think you may be making a bigger mistake by giving capper to much credit to start. Isn't it at least enough likely that this guy is a spazz that you have to bet your TPTK with a nut-flush draw on the turn. Sure vs. a range of TT+, AK then you are behind. But this is an unknown. Maybe he capped with T9s or KTs, or 55-99.

Once he checks the turn its obviously much less likely that he has TT+ or AK. So it seems likely that he spazzed preflop. If he spazzed preflop maybe he'll spazz with a bluff on the river.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

I think you should have stopped the action at the flop and asked for a discussion of flop turn lines. I think a checkraise on the flop is better, I think the river action is very good, but there's a problem with the hand as a whole and that not enough money went into the pot.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

I prefer a c/r on the flop, fwiw, but the big streets are more interesting.

I can't really fault you for the turn action without a read. I would probably bet that because I'm a spewtard and omg I just picked up so many outs but I can't fight your line there. I'm going to be really interested in what others have to say about this.

I think once villain checks the turn you have to conclude that villain probably just spazzed out with some sort of suited broadway hand, 99, something like that. I'm probably betting the river for value because I think he checks behind a lot with the spazz range.

Just throwing it out there, but I feel like when I see stuff like this the villain seems to usually have just misclicked.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

c/r the flop, if he spazzed pf, this is the only place you're likely to get paid.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

I think villain has exactly KK fwiw.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think villain has exactly KK fwiw.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont think anyone at 10/20 plays KK so strong pf then checks that turn. im putting him on like, 99, 88, or 77 and hoping to isolate.

Flop: (13.50 SB) Q, J, 2 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, UTG+1 folds.

kings would surely raise here, no?

then again i also bet that turn.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

Nothing wrong with folding AQs to an early position raiser at a 10 handed table. Especially in early middle.

Turn check was the right play. Hard for your bet to get called or raised by a worse hand (given his cap) and a free card is fine.

For the river I think b/f is the worst option. You've shown weakness on the turn and a maniac player might try to outplay you with A9s, medium pair, etc.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should have stopped the action at the flop and asked for a discussion of flop turn lines. I think a checkraise on the flop is better, I think the river action is very good, but there's a problem with the hand as a whole and that not enough money went into the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain why a flop check-raise is better?

Also, I agree that it feels like more money should have gone into the pot, but I'm not sure how to best to get it in. It seems like every time I bet and get raised on the turn it's from a hand I'm pretty far behind, but there aren't a lot of worse hands in a reasonable range that will just call the turn that I'm ahead of given preflop.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are assuming this guy is solid then I think your logic is reasonable in the way you played the turn and the river.

But I think you may be making a bigger mistake by giving capper to much credit to start. Isn't it at least enough likely that this guy is a spazz that you have to bet your TPTK with a nut-flush draw on the turn. Sure vs. a range of TT+, AK then you are behind. But this is an unknown. Maybe he capped with T9s or KTs, or 55-99.

Once he checks the turn its obviously much less likely that he has TT+ or AK. So it seems likely that he spazzed preflop. If he spazzed preflop maybe he'll spazz with a bluff on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily. Put yourself in villains shoes. This is exactly how I'd play KK. I cap pf which is standard and some tag bets into me on a QJx flop. His range has to be AA, KK, QQ, JJ or AQ. I don't really want to get into a raising war here so I call. On the turn, his check looks defensive AA, KK, or AQ, and his range still has me crushed so I check. On the river, its pretty clear he doesn't have AA or a set so I can bet hoping he'll pay off w/AQ.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

I like cc'ing the flop and reevalutating. I don't really like putting in too many bets on the flop or turn and I'm perfectly content to watch pf capper bet.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should have stopped the action at the flop and asked for a discussion of flop turn lines. I think a checkraise on the flop is better, I think the river action is very good, but there's a problem with the hand as a whole and that not enough money went into the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you like a flop CR? I think it's time to play defense. Whenever a lot of bets go in here we are almost always beaten badly and occasionally chopping.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

I would just play this hand as though I had the best hand until told otherwise. Therefore, I would try to get the most money in while I think I am ahead which means check-raise the flop. If MP3 three bets then I just call down(uninproved). If he calls the flop and raises the turn I would still call down. Against certain aggressive players or free showdown raise type players I would three bet the turn if raised. Against an unknown I am going to showdown almost always.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

you realize this is a 10 handed poker game right?

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
you realize this is a 10 handed poker game right?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does this mean?

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

what is your coldcapping range in this spot preflop?

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

QQ+
AKo
JJ,TT(If the raisers are loose)

In the games I play in I see lots of interesting hands that are capped in this situation 89s(Asian players) AJ,AT, Middle pairs etc.

In the absence of information I keep an open mind.

What parts of my analysis do you disagree with in my original post? I will admit I usually play in 9 handed games.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

the part where we should think we have the best hand until told otherwise. im a spazz and i would probably just c/c c/c c/c here. after he checks turn like he did this time i am betting river and wouldn't really be surprised if we lost when we get called but by that point i think we have enough reason to believe he has capped 88-99 or some random 2 broadways he will now pay with which is something i do not generally give people credit for pf. i was going to suggest maybe c/c c/c b/f but just as i was going to type it i remembered a convo mike l and i had about this where it was like "b/f in these spots is stupid because you are expecting to get raised so often"

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

I play live and there are times when you know the coldcapper has a monster and there are times when you know he is capping because it is fun.

Absent any reads I could definately see playing it your way.

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

Sean what do you think of a turn donk given the PF and flop action

Re: 10/20: What can he have? What can I beat?
 

i think its a good way to charge ourselves an extra bet to draw to a flush since the two realistic hands in villain's range that we were ahead of just obliterated us.

i would have bet if i magically knew villain had pocket 9s like he apparently did though.