Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

$4.40/180
Villian in BB has repeatedly shown to be very loose (called one 24xBB All-in w/ J5o)
Button also has been loose, but not as much so as the BB.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t4037)
Hero (t2378)
BB (t5659)
UTG (t3250)
UTG+1 (t1240)
MP1 (t1570)
MP2 (t1315)
MP3 (t2880)
CO (t1156)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls t100, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls t100, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t400) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t400) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t400 <font color="brown">(IS THIS GOOD SIZE?) </font> </font>, BB calls t400, MP2 folds, Button calls t400.

River: (t1600) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero check/calls?

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

fold pf

shove river

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

pf isn't in question, and i can't even tell if that's serious advice or not

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

[ QUOTE ]
pf isn't in question, and i can't even tell if that's serious advice or not

[/ QUOTE ]

i think 89o w/ 24BBs OOP is -EV to play, so i'm giving you that advice

lol, shove &gt; c/c &gt; c/f imo .. i guess you can give me reasons why you think i'd be joking though and i'd do my best to explain it to you

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

I think he's serious. A leak of a lot of players is completing from the SB/calling raises from the BB because of the discount. You end up in a pretty big pot OOP. However, that's not your question.

With two people calling your pot on the turn--I would bet less, but not much less, like 300-350--I think that planning to c/c is prudent. You could also b/f.

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

Fold PF.

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

FOLD PF. Turn bet is fine. but check call river as played.

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

Wow, I need to go to bed. I didn't even really look at the stack sizes.

By folding PF you never find yourself in the position to have to c/c a huge portion of your stack with what is possibly the second best hand.

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pf isn't in question, and i can't even tell if that's serious advice or not

[/ QUOTE ]

i think 89o w/ 24BBs OOP is -EV to play, so i'm giving you that advice

lol, shove &gt; c/c &gt; c/f imo .. i guess you can give me reasons why you think i'd be joking though and i'd do my best to explain it to you

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not b/c your advice was so ridiculous i thought you were joking, its just that when ppl DO joke on these forums they say just what you said. and you didnt give an explanation so i wasn't sure. lol

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

btw, i know that completing bets is not smart, but my logic (possibly flawed) was that loose players will pay off more than others if i could make a good hand, thus increasing my implied odds.

that used to be a huge leak of mine, now it's more under ocntrol although i still make justifications (like the one above) to do it sometimes

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

I'm a little curious why Early thinks that shoving the river is the best line.

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a little curious why Early thinks that shoving the river is the best line.

[/ QUOTE ]

because i think it's way more likely for someone to call a shove with a worse hand than it is for someone to bet it..since we're not going to c/f, i think the range of hands that villains will bet the river with is made up primarily of flushes, while they'll check a hand like QJ or KJ behind a pretty significant amount of time

the only hand that i could see bluffing the river here is QK, but i think they'll be pretty timid to bluff this river,

a lot of villains will call a shove here with a Jack, and none of them are gonna fold 2pr+ -- although they might not always bet 2pr+

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

I really don't think it's too bad to call preflop getting 7 to 1, as long as you recognize that you'll probably need to make a big hand or strong draw to put any more money in postflop.

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

I don't mind completing from the SB given the odds you're receiving. But to do this profitably with 98, you have to be able to lay down hands like top pair to any aggressive flop action. Keep in mind that you're OOP against mutltiple players who could have any two cards.

I like the turn bet and I don't mind shoving the river. Like early mentioned, people will check behind with hands that they'd normally call an all-in with at this level (two pair, maybe even a bottom set). Checking is good if you think you can induce a bluff from one of your opponents. But I don't think that's happening here.

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold pf

shove river

[/ QUOTE ]

Word.

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

Going out on a limb here, and I doubt I do this for real, but how about a bet fold?

Against this kind of player, are we ever seing a push by a worse hand?

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Going out on a limb here, and I doubt I do this for real, but how about a bet fold?

Against this kind of player, are we ever seing a push by a worse hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

1878 chips left and 1600 in the pot, i'd rather open fold than bet/fold here, i don't see what bet size you can make that doesn't commit you without looking super weak and inviting someone to bluff you

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

I shovez, since you said BB is super loose.

Re: Turned nuts - C/C on river best option?
 

Because of the reads you have on each player I think pf is marginal, normally it's a fold. Turn looks good. Shove river for reasons early listed.