Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

I've been offered two $100 comp chips to gamble with from a LV casino. Previously, when I've accepted the offer, I used to bet them both at the craps table --- one on the pass line, one on the don't pass line, with a side bet on the 12 (effectively converting the comp chips to regular chips). They don't allow this anymore. What would you recommend as an alternative to bet these chips as safely as possible?

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

Other options that crossed my mind -- betting red or black at roulette (obviously not the best odds with the 0 and 00), betting on blackjack (would not want to have to pony up my own money if I got into split/double-down situations), or maybe a field bet at the craps table (which might be worthwhile if they pay double/triple on the 2 or 12). Any thoughts appreciated.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

banker in baccarat

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

Never played baccarat before... can I just walk up and drop the chip on the "Banker" box thing?

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

yup i think its the best bet for comp chips

youll win like 46% of the time and

push about 10% of the time

they take a commission on the banker bet

but the banker is more often going to win than the player

so walk up and plop that comp chip down on banker

and hope for the best

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

Thanks! I'll give it a whirl.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

If your objective is to make a hedge bet so you're guaranteed a win, rather than risking the money, you should bet both banker and player at the same time on the Baccarat table. Player pays 1:1, banker pays 0.975:1.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

I'm not claiming this is best, but I walk up to an EMPTY craps table, bet the don't and shoot against myself. I also place a toke bet for the dealers alongside mine.

I toss randomly without any dice setting and plenty of roll. If I survive the come-out roll, the advantage is mine. I use to enjoy craps, so this is a guilty pleasure for me.

I emphasize an EMPTY craps table, because I have no desire to upset anyone or dampen the mood at an active table. If anyone attempts to join my table as I'm about to shoot, I'll point out to them just what I'm doing and kindly suggest that they might want to wait until my one shoot win or lose session is finished before they place bets. Although, this can often be akin to talking to a brick wall.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

They took this promotion away from my local casino when everyone started doing this....

Take the 100 comp plus 100 chip and bet 200 on banker in baccarat....

Then bet 150 on player....

If bank wins you get paid 200 and lose 150 on player.

If player wins you get paid 150 on player and lose 100 on bank.

Either way you are up $50.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
They took this promotion away from my local casino when everyone started doing this....

Take the 100 comp plus 100 chip and bet 200 on banker in baccarat....

Then bet 150 on player....

If bank wins you get paid 200 and lose 150 on player.

If player wins you get paid 150 on player and lose 100 on bank.

Either way you are up $50.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're forgetting about the commission, aren't you?

Your local casino is not very sophisticated. They lose exactly the same amount on their promo chips to patrons playing them in this manner as they would to patrons playing only either side of the baccarat bet. The only thing that is altered is the variance--and from the casino's perspective, that probably matters very little due to the large number of promo chips used. The casino has only alienated some of their better customers who mistakingly thought they were getting away with something.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If your objective is to make a hedge bet so you're guaranteed a win, rather than risking the money, you should bet both banker and player at the same time on the Baccarat table. Player pays 1:1, banker pays 0.975:1.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's kind of what I used to do, when I would be the Pass and the Don't Pass with the chips, but they didn't allow that. I wonder if they'd block me doing that at the Baccarat table as well? You're right --- I am trying to hedge the bet... if I can covert the $100 comp chips into playable smaller denominations, that would be ideal.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

I would never plunk down my own money to hedge, thats always -EV.

I would just play some blackjack w/ the chips. You may need to use your own money to double or something, but I think its the least -EV you could get.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would never plunk down my own money to hedge, thats always -EV.

I would just play some blackjack w/ the chips. You may need to use your own money to double or something, but I think its the least -EV you could get.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you "have" to double, it's definitely NOT -EV.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They took this promotion away from my local casino when everyone started doing this....

Take the 100 comp plus 100 chip and bet 200 on banker in baccarat....

Then bet 150 on player....

If bank wins you get paid 200 and lose 150 on player.

If player wins you get paid 150 on player and lose 100 on bank.

Either way you are up $50.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're forgetting about the commission, aren't you?

Your local casino is not very sophisticated. They lose exactly the same amount on their promo chips to patrons playing them in this manner as they would to patrons playing only either side of the baccarat bet. The only thing that is altered is the variance--and from the casino's perspective, that probably matters very little due to the large number of promo chips used. The casino has only alienated some of their better customers who mistakingly thought they were getting away with something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this may not be a terrible decision on the casino's part, depending on how they award the chips. Players who choose to take the comp chip and hedge probably aren't going to be great sources of action for the casino generally. OTOH, the sorts of players who want to take the comp and GAMBOOOOL may be well worth comping.

If the casino has already awarded the comp chip based on knowledge about the player (e.g. previous play) then I agree it doesn't make sense to prohibit hedge bets.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

Just put it all on black you nit.

Also, you could just use them to gamble in the same way you gambled before to actually get the comp?

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

idk why all of you players

are so concerned with hedging your bet

youre not risking anything its a free bet

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
idk why all of you players

are so concerned with hedging your bet

youre not risking anything its a free bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you're risking something. Just because you didn't pay for the comp chip doesn't mean it has no value. If you found $100 on the floor and then bet it on black, would it be true that "you're not risking anything"?

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

idk how you can compare those two
cause the money you find you can just pocket
the comp chip has no value unless wagered
why would you want to make two bets that are -EV
when you can just make one
youd be much better in the longrun
just wagering your comp chips on one bet
instead of trying to hedge them between two

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

The comp chip has no value unless wagered, just as the money has no value unless spent. The comp chip is equivalent to a gift certificate to a casino. Are gift certificates valueless?

As for the EV impact of hedging, OP's ask was about how to minimize risk when betting the comp chip. In the case where you have two comp chips of equal value, betting them on opposing even money bets (red and black, say) is the same from an EV perspective as putting them all on red or all on black. However, you have greater certainty of outcome by hedging.

In the case where you have only one comp chip, you do lose a little bit of EV by using Total Poker Noob's strategy-- mostly because it involves putting out $100 in cash as well as the $100 comp chip. So, you're taking house edge on $200 instead of $100. However, a player who cares about certainty of outcome may be willing to give up a bit of expected loss to gain certainty.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone attempts to join my table as I'm about to shoot, I'll point out to them just what I'm doing and kindly suggest that they might want to wait until my one shoot win or lose session is finished before they place bets. Although, this can often be akin to talking to a brick wall.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very funny, have you forgotton that craps is a random game? Why would anyone with half a brain care that you are both shooting and betting the don't? The odds aren't any different than if Santa was shooting the dice.

Just in case you wanted to refute by stating that you are some kind of world champion dice setter/shooter my response would be: Then why not use that bionic arm of yours and never throw a seven and bet the do pass line instead of the don't?


Jimbo

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
idk how you can compare those two
cause the money you find you can just pocket
the comp chip has no value unless wagered
why would you want to make two bets that are -EV
when you can just make one
youd be much better in the longrun
just wagering your comp chips on one bet
instead of trying to hedge them between two

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this isn't true at all depending on the size of the advantage bet you made (In terms of bankroll %).

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

This article from Blackjack Forum discusses promo chips and match-plays and the like at length. It talks about maximizing EV and also hedges. I agree with the author that hedges are for nits, but if you must, there are a few hedges in there.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If anyone attempts to join my table as I'm about to shoot, I'll point out to them just what I'm doing and kindly suggest that they might want to wait until my one shoot win or lose session is finished before they place bets. Although, this can often be akin to talking to a brick wall.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very funny, have you forgotton that craps is a random game? Why would anyone with half a brain care that you are both shooting and betting the don't? The odds aren't any different than if Santa was shooting the dice.

Just in case you wanted to refute by stating that you are some kind of world champion dice setter/shooter my response would be: Then why not use that bionic arm of yours and never throw a seven and bet the do pass line instead of the don't?


Jimbo

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not Jumbo, I just want to let them know exactly what my intentions are...that I'm taking one shoot betting the Don't with a promo chip and that win or lose, I'll be gone afterwards.

The common craps mentality Jumbo is for people to bet alongside a shooter, who is also betting the pass line. That camaraderie is what makes craps a socially enjoyable game. Given that these people are jumping onto an empty table as I'm about to shoot, I find that announcing my intentions leaves me with a clear "craps conscience" afterwards no matter the result.

How many people do you see shooting the dice on the Don't Jumbo? It's a major faux pax in the craps world. Most Don't players simply pass the dice to the next shooter. This is why I will only approach a completely empty table to do this Jumbo...but, I can't stop people from stepping up and placing bets.

I wish I had that bionic arm Jumbo, but I've never attempted to invest the time in training and technique to develop one...although recent literature from many noted gaming authorities suggests that it is possible. What I do know Jumbo, is that if I only survive the come-out roll, the win/lose odds on all subsequent random rolls now favor me somewhere between 6:5 to 2:1. That's good enough for me with a promo chip that I don't want to hedge Dumbo.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

Just in case anyone was curious, I was allowed instead to receive $200 in slot play instead of the two $100 comp chips. It was loaded onto my players card, and I went ahead and played the max bet on 25 cent video poker until I had gambled that amount, then I cashed it out. Ended up with $238.

Again, if they had been able to give me 8 $25 chips instead of 2 $100 chips, I'd just gamble them and have no problem. I just don't usually bet as high as $100.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just in case anyone was curious, I was allowed instead to receive $200 in slot play instead of the two $100 comp chips. It was loaded onto my players card, and I went ahead and played the max bet on 25 cent video poker until I had gambled that amount, then I cashed it out. Ended up with $238.

Again, if they had been able to give me 8 $25 chips instead of 2 $100 chips, I'd just gamble them and have no problem. I just don't usually bet as high as $100.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the comp chips only play once (most do) rather than until they lose, then the free-play is a much better deal even with the worst of machines to use it in. The combination of higher ev and lower variance is hard to beat. Congrats.

Re: Comp Chips - How to Bet?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of course not Jumbo, I just want to let them know exactly what my intentions are...that I'm taking one shoot betting the Don't with a promo chip and that win or lose, I'll be gone afterwards.


[/ QUOTE ]

Let me see if I understand you: You don't believe a random craps player is able to walk up to the table, see you are first of all betting with a chip the size of a donut, next that it is on the don't pass, then discern that you want to not make your point and finally that they would still want to play craps. (Almost forgot the most important part, that they would care if you were even there in the first place, much less that you planned on leaving) .

You my chump are delusional.

Jimbo