QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

Villain is a pretty nitty regular. Runs at 23/15/4.5. He 3bets quite a bit usually, nothing crazy though. He just sat down so we have no history this session.

Should I just check/shove the flop and do you call the turn once we've got that far?

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG (<font color="#0000cc">$406.60</font>)
Hero (<font color="#0000cc">$197.00</font>)
BTN (<font color="#0000cc">$212.40</font>)
SB (<font color="#0000cc">$222.75</font>)
BB (<font color="#0000cc">$222.00</font>)

Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is CO Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#777777">1 fold</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BTN raises to $21</font>, <font color="#777777">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $14

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($45, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">BTN bets $35</font>, Hero calls $35

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($115, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">BTN bets $156.4</font>, Hero ???

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

Check/shove is probably better on the flop. Call as played though.

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

crai on the flop plz, or 4-bet and call a shove pf, also 23/15 is definitely not nitty

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

claunchy, shpanko,

are we check shoving to profit from a cbet and for fear of overs/diamonds hitting the turn and killing our action or putting us behind? Is that about right? Is there any other reasons as to why we are doing so?

I take a similar line to the one you guys suggest i'm just not sure if i fully understand why i'm taking that line.

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

Push the flop.

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
claunchy, shpanko,

are we check shoving to profit from a cbet and for fear of overs/diamonds hitting the turn and killing our action or putting us behind? Is that about right? Is there any other reasons as to why we are doing so?

I take a similar line to the one you guys suggest i'm just not sure if i fully understand why i'm taking that line.

[/ QUOTE ]
The flop is where we can best represent a draw, another diamond will kill our action unless we're beat, same goes for a A and K. It's also where we're most likely to get action from a lower PP. Calling oop also sucks vs hands such as Adx/Kdx. Pushing the flop has so many benefits compared to calling and playing the turn oop.

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
claunchy, shpanko,

are we check shoving to profit from a cbet and for fear of overs/diamonds hitting the turn and killing our action or putting us behind? Is that about right? Is there any other reasons as to why we are doing so?

I take a similar line to the one you guys suggest i'm just not sure if i fully understand why i'm taking that line.

[/ QUOTE ]
The flop is where we can best represent a draw, another diamond will kill our action unless we're beat, same goes for a A and K. It's also where we're most likely to get action from a lower PP. Calling oop also sucks vs hands such as Adx/Kdx. Pushing the flop has so many benefits compared to calling and playing the turn oop.

[/ QUOTE ]

nice post

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

Nick,

NH. Thanks for stepping in bro.

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

c/r flop, call now. reasons as above [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

C/R the flop is fine, but I would fold the turn. The most likely hands I see him pushing the turn with are AA, KK and AK or AQ with one or 2 diamonds. You are behind this range. Add in JJ and it's a coinflip. If you think he'd do this with 99 and TT too you're good to go.

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

thanks guys.

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

What happened?

Re: QQ OOP in 3bet pot
 

check shove flop for value vs most hands

1) TT-JJ is in his range and you have them beat
2) Less likely he will have AA-KK. If he has those, you most likely will have a diamond for an out which gives you tremendous equity. If both of you have a diamond, that's just a cooler.
3) If he calls with A or K high flush draw with AK, you still have that beat with your pair of Queens, so you're is decent shape.