How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

I recently played in a game in my hometown (mind you this was a club not a casino) where the rake was uncommonly high. It was a $1/$2 NLHE game and there was no time taken but the rake was at 10% up to $25 for a $500 pot. Once I saw them take $27.

Now the interesting thing about this game was that at least 4 players playing (usually 7-10 players) would take turns dealing. The game was uncommonly soft. These guys were pretty loose but lots of times went in with very meager holdings. Sometimes they would tighten up and play more correctly.

One of the dealers stated that he had never read more than three pages of a poker book in his life, kept going into his wallet for $100 then $200 and then $200 again and must have bought in for $800 or so. He also stated that he was unemployed. I am fairly certain that they are probably sharing their winnings that they win from the game.

I am 95% certain that I am not going back to this place because I hate their rake so badly. But it got me to thinking. Is this rake so high that it is really unbeatable? With the lackage of games in my home town it is still tempting to go back but I think I am really opposed to it. Instead I may start my own homegame.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

Buy a plane ticket
Come to france
Play in casino where poker is new
See 10% rake uncap
Win a 2k pot
Pay 200 euros in rake

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

There isn't a magical number where it becomes unbeatable. If your edge over the opposition is greater than the rake you will win.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

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There isn't a magical number where it becomes unbeatable. If your edge over the opposition is greater than the rake you will win.

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Exactly. Imagine if all your opponents capped every street, then folded for one bet on the river unless they held the absolute nuts. I think you could probably beat a 50% rake at this game [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

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There isn't a magical number where it becomes unbeatable. If your edge over the opposition is greater than the rake you will win.

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Exactly. Funny that this thread came up now because someone just sent me a PM telling me that he didn't like the home game I told him about because it charges a 5% rake even though, in his words the players were horrible.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

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There isn't a magical number where it becomes unbeatable. If your edge over the opposition is greater than the rake you will win.

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Exactly. Funny that this thread came up now because someone just sent me a PM telling me that he didn't like the home game I told him about because it charges a 5% rake even though, in his words the players were horrible.

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Well as a side-point to all of this some people avoid the casinos that have bad beat jakcpots because they don't want that extra money taken out. However I think the competition at certain places is considerably softer and therefore still more profitable than other B&M's with no extra dollar worthwhile. But this rake in this particular game is worse than any amount taken out for a bad beat jackpot in a casino.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

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There isn't a magical number where it becomes unbeatable. If your edge over the opposition is greater than the rake you will win.

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100% is magical.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

How high a rake is unbeatable?
A rake that is higher than your winrate is unbeatable.

Oh, and 10% of $500 is not $25.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

I would tend to believe %10 up to $25 is unbeatable. But like others have said it depends on other factors.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

Beatable schmeatable. Don't frequent this game as it is bad for poker. You should only go to recruit the players for starting your own game.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

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How high a rake is unbeatable?
A rake that is higher than your winrate is unbeatable.

Oh, and 10% of $500 is not $25.

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OMG sorry...you are right...i meant to type 5%...my bad.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

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Is this [5%] rake so high that it is really unbeatable?

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No, that's not close to unbeatable given typical bad players. In online microstakes games, the rake is also 5% and effectively uncapped since the pots rarely reach $60. If I recall correctly, that takes about 7 big blinds/100 out of the game per player, and players can still win 20 big blinds/100 or more, depending on the level. Winning 20 big blinds/100 means beating the table average by about 27 big blinds/100. Full Tilt even rakes the NL $10 games 10%, and that is beatable, just not by as much as if they had a normal rake.

More money may be taken out if the pots tend to be larger, when large raises are routinely called in several places, but you are probably better off playing against people who play large pots, so these games should still be beatable.

A $5/half hour time charge at a table with a $2 big blind takes 15-20 big blinds/100 per player, assuming 25-33 hands are dealt per hour. That's still beatable, even when you take out another 4 big blinds/100 in tips, since the players are terrible on average.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

I wouldn't think that a 5% rake could be considered unbeatable. I'd much rather pay 5% to $80 than 10% to $40. Yeah, it sucks that it's a 5% rake all the way up to $250, but it shouldn't be unbeatable.

Higher rakes hurt the looser players disproportionately. Looser players put money into more hands, and therefore contribute to the rake more often. If there aren't enough loose players at your table to keep the gator fed, look for a different table.

Re: How high a rake is unbeatable?
 

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There isn't a magical number where it becomes unbeatable. If your edge over the opposition is greater than the rake you will win.

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No, I think their is. You can calculate (or guess) a rake rate at which point you could not beat the game even if your opponents played with their cards face up. That would be unbeatable.

Granted you could imagine players that are beatable with almost any rake like if they raise 99% of their stack preflop and fold when you re-raise them. Against realistic players though their will be a point at which the game is unbeatable.