Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

Not much I recall about villain, which sucks. CRAI or shove river?

Another 2p2 was watching me play this hand. He thought that this might be a good spot to CRAI since villain's range is mostly maid up of weak hands. My only concern is checking could potentially lose some value here. Thoughts?

Note mis-click PF raise amount

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $156.85
UTG: $76.45
MP: $98.50
CO: $97.50
BTN: $179.05
SB: $99

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
3 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $3</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $9</font>, BTN calls $6

Flop: ($18.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $13</font>, BTN calls $13

Turn: ($44.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $32</font>, BTN calls $32

River: ($108.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero ???

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

bet river

most of the FDs in his range include the Kd, which he won't fold, and he's not likely to fold AJ+ after making it to the river..i dont think he has many hands that he bluffs river with

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

on the one hand, i can't really put him on a hand that will call three bets in a row. on the other hand, he must be pretty retarded to bet a missed draw here because it would be so obvious. i think you could give it a try because the only hand that might call a bet and not bet when checked to might be the one A left in the deck.

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

If villain has weak hands we don't want to check. He could have a draw, but he may not bet it, plus it's a 3 bet pot, so I'm less worried about a draw.

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

Value bet river

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

As much as I love river checkraises, I think betting is better here. AJ and AQ shouldn't be folding at this point, and they are more likely to check behind then turn their hand into a bluff (like that foxwoods AJ hand [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

Gotta bet. Odds of him looking you up are way higher than him bluffing after you bet the turn.

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

your losing to much value by checking. You have ot value bet river your getting looked up by a wide range on the river. Checking is terrible i think!!

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

i dont think that a lot of people try to bet their busted draws on pf 3-bets pots...

i really like a shove here...villian is gonna think "wtf is representing here when a 2nd K comes on the river and shoving!!" so he maybe call with marginally hands like A8 sometimes and Obviously KdXd...

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

I shove. I just don't see many hands he bluffs with it

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

Stick it in.

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gotta bet. Odds of him looking you up are way higher than him bluffing after you bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

shove. you lose way to much value by checking. if he was chasing with the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] he'll pay you off regardless and if he was just drawing he will check behind.

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

Please don't try a CR here.
[ QUOTE ]

Value bet river



[/ QUOTE ]
How much you value betting, $60-$70ish?

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/1118070...id_Uniform.jpg

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

Villain just can't be calling 3 bets here without being a complete donk esp a decent sized value bet.
In this situation I like a bet of $45. I can't see villain calling anything larger than this often enough with a weaker hand. This amount may also induce a bluff raise by villain.

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

shove shove shove.

Checking is bad because villain almost never gets to this river with a hand that has no showdown value. So you're basically hoping he value bets a worse hand - but if he perceives his hand as being strong enough to value bet then he will likely perceive it as strong enough to call with.

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain just can't be calling 3 bets here without being a complete donk esp a decent sized value bet.
In this situation I like a bet of $45. I can't see villain calling anything larger than this often enough with a weaker hand. This amount may also induce a bluff raise by villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

River pot is $108 and we have ~ $102 left. If I am betting this river, then I am shoving like 100% of the time. Does anyone disagree?

My reasoning would be that a shove represents the widest range of hands, and will extract the most value. If villain is calling $70 then he is most likely calling a shove as well.

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain just can't be calling 3 bets here without being a complete donk esp a decent sized value bet.
In this situation I like a bet of $45. I can't see villain calling anything larger than this often enough with a weaker hand. This amount may also induce a bluff raise by villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

River pot is $108 and we have ~ $102 left. If I am betting this river, then I am shoving like 100% of the time. Does anyone disagree?

My reasoning would be that a shove represents the widest range of hands, and will extract the most value. If villain is calling $70 then he is most likely calling a shove as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
I love a shove, and I hate any other play. Any hand he is betting on the river, he is calling a shove with, since betting the river any amount gives him amazing odds to call a push, unless he is bluffing the river, which he is never doing. He will check behind weak Ax hands if you check.

Re: Shove or CRAI River with monster?
 

i hope i didnt tell you to c/r this [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]