James Joyce and Ulysses
 

Can anyone here say they've picked up Ulysses, read it, and was like "yeah, I get at least 50% of the literary allusions and know wtf is going on in this book?"

This is a bit of a shift from a summer reading Harry Potter 7 and His Dark Materials series.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone here say they've picked up Ulysses, read it, and was like "yeah, I get at least 50% of the literary allusions and know wtf is going on in this book?"

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Half the people who say they finished it are lying, the other half don't have a clue what anything means beyond what they are told by others (this includes university professors).

I got half way through and gave up. When I realized I hated picking it up and that I was only reading it because it's a "classic" I didn't see the point in going any further.

[ QUOTE ]
This is a bit of a shift from a summer reading Harry Potter 7 and His Dark Materials series.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure it is - why don't you read something in the middle?

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

So what, I'm pretty sure James Joyce doesn't have 30,000+ posts. Ulysses by a mile.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

Dubliners>Portrait>Ulysses>Finnegan's Wake

And I've read them all, tho I'm stretching the definition of reading there. My eyes have touched each word.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

A Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man is a book I love. Ulysses is a book that I am proud to have gotten through.

I read it in high school and got 0 out of it. I read it again in college and kind of enjoyed it. I don't plan on reading it again until I'm 70 and retired, but I'm sure I'll appreciate it then.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dubliners>Portrait>Ulysses>Finnegan's Wake

And I've read them all, tho I'm stretching the definition of reading there. My eyes have touched each word.

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Dubliners, though I haven't ever gotten through Ulysses or Finnegan's

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

Lol, try reading this:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...WL._SS500_.jpg

and then gratefully relapse to the pure readability that is Ulysses.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I just started reading this about a week or two ago and I am really enjoying it so far. However, it is slow going. I find myself reading a page or two, thinking "Ummmm, what?" and then rereading the page. Usually I get it the second or third time around and after about an hour or two, I start to get really into it.

The problem is that I can't seem to just pick it up from time to time and read for a half-hour or so without feeling lost. It really does demand attention but I love when everything starts clicking and you start understanding the thought process of the characters. Of course, I'm not that far in, so maybe it gets quite a bit more difficult.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I got through it and thought it was an enjoyable read, but no, I didn't get any of the allusions or other stuff until I selectively re-read some parts after reading the Wikipedia article on it like 5 years later.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dubliners>Portrait>Ulysses>Finnegan's Wake

And I've read them all, tho I'm stretching the definition of reading there. My eyes have touched each word.

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Dubliners, though I haven't ever gotten through Ulysses or Finnegan's

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure nobody has ever actually read Finnegans Wake.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone here say they've picked up Ulysses, read it, and was like "yeah, I get at least 50% of the literary allusions and know wtf is going on in this book?"

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Half the people who say they finished it are lying, the other half don't have a clue what anything means beyond what they are told by others (this includes university professors).

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read Ulysses, but this type of attitude always strikes me as more elitist than those who claim to understand Ulysses. It's basically saying, "If I don't understand it, no one else possibly can!"

Try Portrait... which I enjoyed a great deal.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lol, try reading this:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...WL._SS500_.jpg

and then gratefully relapse to the pure readability that is Ulysses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't read it. It's dangerous. Some of my friends in college would read it and make fun of it, but before long they were all babbling idiots.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I'm in the second section of the book and it's gotten a little easier to follow.

I'm kind of thinking about getting the Cliff's Notes for Ulysses, reading a chapter of Ulysses, reading the accompanying chapters in the Notes, ruminating on that for a bit, and then moving on.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't read it. It's dangerous. Some of my friends in college would read it and make fun of it, but before long they were all babbling idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too late, I already have. Except I started as a babbling idiot and ended a drooling one.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I didn't particularly enjoy Portrait, so I've never bothered moving on to the heavy stuff.

EDIT:

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read Ulysses, but this type of attitude always strikes me as more elitist than those who claim to understand Ulysses. It's basically saying, "If I don't understand it, no one else possibly can!"

[/ QUOTE ]

While there's something to this, a Sklanskyesque Bayesian approach tends to lead me to think that the balance of pretentiousness tips the conventional way.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

The book is in the public domain. Full HTML version is at http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext03/ulyss11h.htm

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

You don't need to understand every single reference and subtle allusion to enjoy Ulysses, but there are plenty of books explaining these if you're interested. If a section gives you trouble, try smoking some pot and re-reading it.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read Ulysses, but this type of attitude always strikes me as more elitist than those who claim to understand Ulysses. It's basically saying, "If I don't understand it, no one else possibly can!"

[/ QUOTE ]

While there's something to this, a Sklanskyesque Bayesian approach tends to lead me to think that the balance of pretentiousness tips the conventional way.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, like poring over Joyce, I read this sentence 3 times and it makes no sense. I mean, I think you're saying that people who read and understand Ulysses are more pretentious and elitist.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

"Mr. Leopold Bloom consumed with relish the inner organs of beasts and fowl."

I read Ulysses in college. Without the guide and guidance of a prof, I would have missed much of the allusions. It's more of a virtuoso work than a readable one, IMO. The stories in Dubliners are more accessible and contain many of the elements hidden in Ulysses. Dubliners + portrait is enough Joyce for me.

Skip Sein und Zeit. L'Etre et le Neant is an easier read. Then plow through Warheit und Methode for a gentle brain [censored].

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
So what, I'm pretty sure James Joyce doesn't have 30,000+ posts. Ulysses by a mile.

[/ QUOTE ]

*whoosh* over the heads of the newbie OOTiots.

This needs more love.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read Ulysses, but this type of attitude always strikes me as more elitist than those who claim to understand Ulysses. It's basically saying, "If I don't understand it, no one else possibly can!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so - I'm not saying it's too dense to understand because I don't understand it, it's because when I've had a "learned" person try to explain it to me they basically just give a list of references to other sources that list sources of people who list sources regarding the content of the book. No one I have ever talked to has had an independent thought about Ulysses including my English professors. They all know whatever they know from having "learned" it from somewhere else.

I'm sure there's a small number of Irish literature experts out there that can critically evaluate Ulysses independently, but that's about it.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I presume you have read the Odyssey to compare? I have to say I have only skimmed James Joyce's Ulysses although I have read and studied the Odyssey many times..

Funnily enough I know someone who is pretty damn good on James Joyce's Ulysses. Shall I get in contact wid him and help you out? What exactly do you need it for?

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So what, I'm pretty sure James Joyce doesn't have 30,000+ posts. Ulysses by a mile.

[/ QUOTE ]

*whoosh* over the heads of the newbie OOTiots.

This needs more love.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I see what he did here. El Diablo used to be named Ulysses and has 30,000 posts. James Joyce died long before 2+2 was even started and therefore has 0 posts. Very clever.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

xorbie -- I think you might enjoy snacking on my genitals.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

skunk,

As a proud American, I prefer larger portions.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 15438 <--- Bigger isn't always better
Loc: far and away better

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

Ulysses is the same story as the Odyssey, except from the Romans right? Anyway I'm in college readying the Odyssey right now, and thank god for sparknotes. It's not TOO bad, but I don't enjoy it so usually I just read the resumes online and quick analysis and understand the book better than 90% of the class who actually read it.

I really don't see why I should care about this story.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ulysses is the same story as the Odyssey, except from the Romans right? Anyway I'm in college readying the Odyssey right now, and thank god for sparknotes. It's not TOO bad, but I don't enjoy it so usually I just read the resumes online and quick analysis and understand the book better than 90% of the class who actually read it.

I really don't see why I should care about this story.

[/ QUOTE ]

Odyssey < Iliad +Aeneid, but all are awesome.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

Jim14C - if ur having trouble, pm me and I'll help ya

If you read the Odyssey more than once you will realise that Homer (or whoever the author(s) is/are) is writing 2000 years ahead of his time..the plot is familiar to the audience and yet the excecution is unparalleled except for the Iliad imo.

The Aeneid for me does an amazing job of paying homage to the Iliad and Odyssey (obv read first line) but falls short of a truly great epic in comparison to aforementioned and Beowolf.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

astyanax, I like the story. I just don't enjoy the writing style so much. That's probably due to fancy translation, and being French some of it gets lost during my readings (which usually take place in the bus at 7.30am,barely awake).

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read Ulysses, but this type of attitude always strikes me as more elitist than those who claim to understand Ulysses. It's basically saying, "If I don't understand it, no one else possibly can!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so - I'm not saying it's too dense to understand because I don't understand it, it's because when I've had a "learned" person try to explain it to me they basically just give a list of references to other sources that list sources of people who list sources regarding the content of the book. No one I have ever talked to has had an independent thought about Ulysses including my English professors. They all know whatever they know from having "learned" it from somewhere else.

I'm sure there's a small number of Irish literature experts out there that can critically evaluate Ulysses independently, but that's about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what you're saying.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I love Ulysses.
No, I never finished it.
No, I don't get all the references.
Yes, what I do get makes a lot of sense to me and I understand what he was doing, even if I don't understand all of the details.

[ QUOTE ]
It's more of a virtuoso work than a readable one, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]
is a good way to put it.

When I'm in the mood for curling up with one of those complete-human-existence-in-as-little-time-and-space-as-possible works, though, I usually pick "The Waste Land".

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read Ulysses, but this type of attitude always strikes me as more elitist than those who claim to understand Ulysses. It's basically saying, "If I don't understand it, no one else possibly can!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so - I'm not saying it's too dense to understand because I don't understand it, it's because when I've had a "learned" person try to explain it to me they basically just give a list of references to other sources that list sources of people who list sources regarding the content of the book. No one I have ever talked to has had an independent thought about Ulysses including my English professors. They all know whatever they know from having "learned" it from somewhere else.

I'm sure there's a small number of Irish literature experts out there that can critically evaluate Ulysses independently, but that's about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

you do see how this is impossible, right? someone somewhere must've had an original thought regarding this work.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

Dubliners is amazing. "The Dead" is the greatest short story I've ever read. I reread it often.

It's just untrue that few people have original thoughts about Ulysses. I took a Joyce/Ibsen seminar in which people expressed all sorts of non-parroted stuff about it. Hell, even I had some things to say.

--Nate

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I have picked up Ulysses and then quickly put it back down around page 2.

Totally just like wtf

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I am in the second section with the dude going to buy sausage and totally checking out the chick's ass, etc. I am finding this section to be more readable so far. Can't say I've picked up on any literary allusions. I'm just happy to understand THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF HIS MOUTH.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

Considering they teach entire university courses specifically oriented at unpacking this book it is no surprise that it is difficult to get most of the allusions in it. I personally have quite a bit of trouble with most modernist literature.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am in the second section with the dude going to buy sausage and totally checking out the chick's ass, etc. I am finding this section to be more readable so far. Can't say I've picked up on any literary allusions. I'm just happy to understand THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF HIS MOUTH.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know exactly what you mean. I'm just a little past there and I find that Bloom is much easier to understand than Stephen Dedalus.

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

I've been meaning to ask this same question for a long time. I've not found anyone I know personally who had any lasting impression of the book, or could tell me why it's widely considered the greatest american novel of the 20th century.

I made it through about 150 pages before giving up. I can't say I enjoyed any of it, and have no idea what was going on. Can someone who appreciates the book point me to a small section in there that they think is particularly amazing, and maybe why?

Re: James Joyce and Ulysses
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been meaning to ask this same question for a long time. I've not found anyone I know personally who had any lasting impression of the book, or could tell me why it's widely considered the greatest american novel of the 20th century.

I made it through about 150 pages before giving up. I can't say I enjoyed any of it, and have no idea what was going on. Can someone who appreciates the book point me to a small section in there that they think is particularly amazing, and maybe why?

[/ QUOTE ]

"Then he slit open his letter, glancing down the page over and over. Thanks: new team: Mr Coghlan: lough Owel picnic: young student: Blazes Boylan's seaside girls."

I just randomly opened to a page I had read and took that passage. When I first read it, it made little sense to me. However, if you keep reading, you see he is briefly skimming his daughter's letter and, when he reads the letter in length later on, you get one of those "Oh [censored]!" moments, where everything clicks.
That is why I am enjoying this so far. There are plenty of little details that are left in and, while I know they are important, I can't for the life of me figure out what Joyce is getting at (like the man in the macintosh at the funeral). But then I do occasionally stumble upon some hidden piece of meaning or some previous passage becomes more coherent and it is rewarding.