Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

Villian is a fish.
He has been calling raises pf with broadways, Q7o, A5o, etc.

He mb with air or TP.
Haven't seen him pfr before.

He's 34/5 over 100 hands.
Not many other reads.


What does my hand look like?
What is the mininum you would call river with in villian's shoes?

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

SB: $7.35
BB: $85.25
UTG: $70.05
MP: $65.85
CO: $43.40
Hero (BTN): $50.50

Pre-Flop: Two Cards dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, MP calls $0.50, <font color="red">CO raises to $1.50</font>, Hero calls $1.50, 2 folds, MP calls $1

Flop: ($5.25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Ahttp://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
MP checks, <font color="red">CO bets $3</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, MP folds, CO calls $5

Turn: ($21.25) Thttp://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $10</font>, CO calls $10

River: ($41.25) 7http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $24 and puts him all-in</font>

Re: Gussing Game
 

You my friend, have a set of fives or you weren't smart enough to 3bet w/ AQ preflop

Re: Gussing Game
 

[ QUOTE ]
You my friend, have a set of fives or you weren't smart enough to 3bet w/ AQ preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you're villain you need a set, AQ, AK, QJ or what to call?

Thanks.

You're dumb friend,
ICM

Re: Gussing Game
 

You have AQ, he has a one pair hand
Minimum I call with is AQ+

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

assuming he even cares what you have, he puts you on a flush draw. he's never folding an ace or even a queen sometimes.

Re: Gussing Game
 

You either have 55 or A10hearts. Tending towards A10hearts since your giving him fairly good odds to draw to his flush(if he is) and hed obviously be drawing dead. Altough this is probably overthinking it already [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Aq is in your range too probably since his pfr is small, thus u wouldnt have reraised.

Id call with Aq and KJ (assuming kj is in his pfr range lol).

Re: Gussing Game
 

Just wanted to say that I like Chick-fil-a too.

I'll post results tonight.

Keep the guesses coming.

I might give a prize or something if you guess his and my hand.

Re: Gussing Game
 

The weak turn bet is suspicious. Set of 5's is possible and also some combo draw with two hearts that missed. Villain probably has 2 pair at most. I'd call with AQ and maybe AT (and obviously with KJ). This also depends on wether the villain has the Ah. I'd call you with AK if I've seen you bluffing the river before.

Re: Gussing Game
 

doesn't really matter what we call with. matters what fishy is calling with. since turn and river didn't change anything to him (i.e., the scary 3rd heart didn't show up), he's calling with a lot. don't be surprised to see KK call either.

Re: Gussing Game
 

I can easily get villain in with two 1/2 psb.

Does that play into the decision?

Re: Gussing Game
 

You might have 89 of hearts and he called you down with KQ.

Re: Gussing Game
 

u have 55, AQ, or a combo draw. pretty narrow range on this flop knowing that u r good and they villian is a donk. luckily tha donk will not be able to put these important pieces of info together thus will call u down with Ax here all day.

on the river the heart draw missed but without n e reads on u i would need AQ or better to call this bet. and i never show up on the river without AQ or better after c/cing the turn on that board

Re: Gussing Game
 

AT/AJ hearts
set aces (since you were sick that noone gives you action when you 3bet pf)

he calls with any toppair or better i guess

Re: Gussing Game
 

Im gonna go with the consensus and say 55, AQ, or KJhh.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

AT hearts or KJ hearts. Hope you didn't have 55 or AQ with that bet sizing.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

not sure what he had, but you played your hand like a busted flush.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

Would hero trippel barrel with AT or KJ of hearts?

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would hero trippel barrel with AT or KJ of hearts?

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf not? One is the nuts and the other is basically the nuts.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

KJhh gives hero the nut straight and AT gives him a strong two pair so I dont see why he wouldnt. I hope this isnt a missed flush draw as I dont see villain folding much. TBH, whatever you had other than KJhh, I dont really like the bet sizing though. Its not big enough for a bluff and too small for protection IMO.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

No way do you have a set or two pair. Your weak turn bet pretty much leads me to believe you have a weak Ace or flush draw. When you bet the river you don't have the weak Ace anymore. I put you on J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and villain is calling you with any Ace and some Queens.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

Grunch.

You asked from the villian's perspective and you said the villian is a fish.

So this may seem trite, however, as a fish:

I'm calling you down with whatever Ax I raised with. I'm never folding AJ, and all my other aces (AK, AQ, are the nuts as far as I'm concerned).

I don't put you on anything, in fact, I don't even know how many opponents are playing.. I have freaking top pair baby... who cares what you have... I'll keep calling your bets... All I know is top pair is the nuts... I have enough trouble keeping track of my own hand, much less worrying about what you have.

--------

So there you go, the fish thoughts.

Re: Gussing Game
 

Let's assume this is a brag post and not a beat. Obviously it looks like busted flush draw, so the simple answer is that you attempted an ill-fated bluff on the river, and villain had a hand that they never should have called with, your bluff should have worked, and you are bitter they called and screamed HYACHAYCAHCHAA!!!!! How can you call that with A9. Jesus god damned [censored]... ahhh [censored]!

But if we asusme it is a brag, two options. First, river is a bluff that worked. But this is unlikely since hero seems to know what villain had. So we can go with the second option: villain called and hero won.

We have 2 clues additional clues. First,

[ QUOTE ]
Haven't seen him pfr before.

[/ QUOTE ]

So villain has a premium hand, and hand is strong enough to get to showdown for his stack. So that leaves AK, QQ, and maybe AQ (even though hero hasn't seen villain raise, AF is 5). AA is in range, but plays flop or turn more agressive.

Second,
[ QUOTE ]
I can easily get villain in with two 1/2 psb.
Does that play into the decision?

[/ QUOTE ]

So lets assume Hero had a monster, that the plan from the flop (or at least the turn) was to get it all in on the river, and the small turn bet was just to ensure some value, while still being able to push for a 2/3psb.

On to possible hands. Hero has to have something pf worth a cc, and something on the flop worth raising, so that leaves QQ, 55, KJ, AQ and hearts (assuming AA repops pf). The turn card brings some more draws, so with hearts and straight draws out, if hero has a set, he bets more to charge the draws. What hands aren't scared of any draw. AQhh is strong and has a redraw to the nuts, but still has to worry about straight draw. So hero has to have KJhh, since this is the only hand that doesn't need to worry about giving cheap card on the turn, since it's the nuts with a redraw to the 2nd nuts.

So we know hero has KJhh, what about villain. That leaves AK, QQ and AQ. We can eliminate AKhh, since hero has Kh, and we can eliminate AQhh, since then hero would look silly not betting more on the turn. So I think we can narrow villain's range to combinations of AK and AQ that don't have 2 hearts, and QQ. QQ probably repops flop because of the draw. AK and AQ should repop too, but maybe AK/AQ are worried about sets.

So villain probably has AK, since it is more in keeping with the "haven't seen him raise pf clue," and since OP says villain is "a fish," this was a pretty fish-like wayt to play AK. AQ is also possible, but I'm going with AK.

results: Hero had KJhh; villain had AK. What's my prize.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

if villian is a standard fish, he calls $11 on the flop and stacks off on the turn with any ace and any fd. Basically with your bet sizing you allowed him to chase the flush for $24 less than he would have paid.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

Hero can't have AQhh since the flop had the Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I'm putting Hero on AA because he knows villain is a fish and probably doesn't have AA himself. Hero also knows he can outplay villain on the flop. Once the Ace hits on the flop, hero raises to charge for draws (though unlikely in this situation) or hopes villain has an Ace, a Queen or QQ...most fish are postionally unaware and don't raise preflop with suited connectors. If our Hero hasn't seen villain raise preflop over 100 hands, it's safe to assume villain has AA-QQ, AK. Knowing this, our Hero can slowplay the [censored] outta this hand and get paid off on the river.

The minumum villain calls the river here is a loaded question because he'll call with any Ace, any Queen, and he's for sure taking a set of QQQ to the bank (which is what I think villain has).

AC

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hero can't have AQhh since the flop had the Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

So at least I got that part right.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

i put u on T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] just for [censored] and giggles, but i'd call u with any pair

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

On the flop I put him on Ax, Kx, KK, JJ.

My plan was to raise small on the flop, jam if I hit or check behind on a blank.

He was pretty passive and I would be 100% shocked if I got CRed on the turn.

I was firing any river and wanted to leave enough behind to fold out A9, KQ or w/e on the river.

On the river he has one pair at best.

How do you like my line?


Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

SB: $7.35
BB: $85.25
UTG: $70.05
MP: $65.85
CO: $43.40
Hero (BTN): $50.50

Pre-Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, MP calls $0.50, <font color="red">CO raises to $1.50</font>, Hero calls $1.50, 2 folds, MP calls $1

Flop: ($5.25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Ahttp://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
MP checks, <font color="red">CO bets $3</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, MP folds, CO calls $5

Turn: ($21.25) Thttp://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $10</font>, CO calls $10

River: ($41.25) 7http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $24</font>

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

I think it is pretty terrible.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

I also tried to bet subconscious amounts.

I raised him $5 more so maybe he thinks I have A5, 55.

On the turn I bet $10 when the Ten hits.

My $24 bet leaves exactly $7, which is the river card.

Did I psyche him out?

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is pretty terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you play turn?

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

[ QUOTE ]
I also tried to bet subconscious amounts.

I raised him $5 more so maybe he thinks I have A5, 55.

On the turn I bet $10 when the Ten hits.

My $24 bet leaves exactly $7, which is the river card.

Did I psyche him out?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is 4554643rd level FPS

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also tried to bet subconscious amounts.

I raised him $5 more so maybe he thinks I have A5, 55.

On the turn I bet $10 when the Ten hits.

My $24 bet leaves exactly $7, which is the river card.

Did I psyche him out?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is 4554643rd level FPS

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but I had a read that this donk's on the 4554642rd level.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it is pretty terrible.

[/ QUOTE ] How do you play turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check. We have some showdown equity along with a decent draw. Trying to get a fish to fold top pair is spew.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

i dont like ur line very much.u raised on the flop with the intention of checking behind on the turn when a blank hits.i totally dont understand why you make a 1/2 potsize bet on the turn when you know that villaien is a calling station!?i mean,what the heck do you achieve by that? do you really think that villain(caling station) now folds on the river when you jam again at the pot?the way you presented the hand i think you are proud about a fold of villain on the river,but nevertheless i still think that you shuold have checked the turn and shut down on the river.raise on the flop is fine to get a freecard.use it!

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

[ QUOTE ]
i put u on T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] just for [censored] and giggles, but i'd call u with any pair

[/ QUOTE ]

soul reading ftw!

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i put u on T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] just for [censored] and giggles, but i'd call u with any pair

[/ QUOTE ]

soul reading ftw!

[/ QUOTE ]


I called it on the first page, noob! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

In my experience people will auto bet the turn after they raise a CB IP on the flop.

Villain will often check call and see what happens on the river.

If your CB gets raised and turn gets bet, river gets pushed, one pair is pretty crappy usually.

With my draw, raising the flop and checking turn is pretty obvious.

I pretty much know he has one pair higher than my tens - so in a sense the ten is a blank.

I think he calls a psb on the river when I miss, but will fold &lt;AK to a turn/river combo.

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also tried to bet subconscious amounts.

I raised him $5 more so maybe he thinks I have A5, 55.

On the turn I bet $10 when the Ten hits.

My $24 bet leaves exactly $7, which is the river card.

Did I psyche him out?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is 4554643rd level FPS

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but I had a read that this donk's on the 4554642rd level.

[/ QUOTE ]

clearly though he is only on 1st level and called w/ A9.

amirite?

LOL FPS from when I first started playing NL that screwed me because villain is a moron who can not count to 5 or is just far superior than me...verdict is still out.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

SB: $49.50
BB: $30.05
UTG: $117.65
MP: $9.75
CO: $45.80
Hero (BTN): $40.55

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB folds, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3</font>, BB calls $3

Turn: ($10.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($10.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $10.25</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $35.55 and is All-In</font>,
<font color="blue">
I know you have crap and I still have FE!!!!</font>
BB calls $14.80 and is All-In
<font color="blue">Arrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggh</font>
Results: $60.35 Pot ($3 Rake)
BB showed 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Sevens and Fours) and WON $57.35 (+$27.30 NET)
Hero showed K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a pair of Sevens) and LOST (-$30.05 NET)
<font color="blue">Hmm, well at least one of my reads was right..LOL</font>

Don't play like hero above [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Hand Reading: Gussing Game
 

The main problem in this hand is that you, yourself, acknowledge that villain is a fish. Yet you are trying to push him off a hand. That's not how you beat a fish. You are way over thinking this hand.