50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

http://www.pokerhand.org/?1714757

I discuss hands with him on AIM often and we both have a good idea what each other is capable of. I think pf and flop are standard this deep, as is the turn bet. I'd normally bet the turn with draws and sometimes weak made hands too because I think the ace is usually a bad card for his range. On the river I put him most likely on KK-TT, with a chance of an ace or 9 also. What does everyone think?

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

yea, i like it. kinda think you have to.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

id say its anywhere from mediocre to fantastic, really hard to comment w/o bein in your shoes. As a default tho its good.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

wouldnt he play AK the same way?

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

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wouldnt he play AK the same way?

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well I don't know what level these guys play at but typically that's a good bluff card for Villain so he should balance it by betting most of the time he hits the ace.

I think it's close- he definitely sounds like a player that could mix in a few slowplays, but he should realize that the river isn't a great bluffing spot for you because all the draws missed/ you probably dont bet a 9x on the turn. so I think he can narrow your range down to Ax float that hit or fullhouse and fold the worse hands often enough/ and balance that with occasional slow plays.

I agree at first glance it feels like we have to, and we are probably ahead vast majority of the time but I don't see him calling us often enough with a worse hand to negate the times he slowplays big hands.

p.s)happy birthday Ansky! i really think people should be temp-banned from 2p2 on their birthdays so they get encouraged to take a break from this place once a year [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

my only issue is that most of your hands that lose to KK-10,10 either raise the flop or check behind turn. You are over repping this a lot which may seriously detract from the value you are getting from this shove.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

Hm. His hand seems soooo much like AX of clubs to the point that i can hardly create a range cause thats making so much noise. If he calls you and wins, i think that is his hand. I def think he can be checking like 10s thru kings here as betting doesnt yield much value for those hands on the turn nor river. I think i like this if not only cause the board is so draw heavy and they all missed that he might look you up if this is one of the first times uve tried the line on him.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

this seems really like too fancy play syndrome tome. too likely he has you beat and too likly he doesn't pay you off if he has a worst hand

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

cant he have AQ AJ AT fairly often and is calling?

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

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my only issue is that most of your hands that lose to KK-10,10 either raise the flop or check behind turn

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I think this is less true when they are deep

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

hmmmmm well if he knows you play draws like this, i like it... cuz based on his line his range is most likely TT-KK... that 9 kinda scares the [censored] outta me though

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

i also think his hand range is stronger than TT-KK he could be check/calling tricky style

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

why is the ace a bad card for his hand? cant he easily have any of a number of big aces here? or do you expect him to fire again on turn with those hands?

i think an ace is just as likely as a big pair, and similarly, i think your shove is a great play as a range merge to sometimes get big aces to fold and sometimes get looked up by underpairs

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

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my only issue is that most of your hands that lose to KK-10,10 either raise the flop or check behind turn. You are over repping this a lot which may seriously detract from the value you are getting from this shove.

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My thoughts exactly...

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

fwiw this deep I'm often flatting the flop with draws

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

How light does Peachy look you up? Versus a lot of players I like this shove on the river a lot.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

i think its cool. u get ownd sometimes, but u own him more.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

vv good.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

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fwiw this deep I'm often flatting the flop with draws

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this is why i like it

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

Doesn't pf get aggressive enough that you're peeling flop with AJ+ sometimes?

Also I think he might c/f or b/f TT-KK on the turn just to avoid a river headache. Its also a perfect board to throw rope with an ace, even though from what I can tell Peachy is a value-monger.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

I saw this hand as it happened and really liked it.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

im interested in what he checks and calls the river with here

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

I think this is 1 lvl too high for me atm..
I haven't found enough excellent players on my 25/50 games to make such a move necessary so I don't feel qualified to say if it is that good.
Nonetheless I am thankful for the quality of this hand, just shows me how much more I can learn.
Did he called with KK ?

Post more Stinger, we appreciate it.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

I would fold this most of the time preflop vs peachy, and since you open so much tighter than me I think you can probably even fold this every time preflop. His preflop range has us clobbered so hard that I can't see position being enough to make up for it, even 200BB deep. When we flop an ace he'll usually get away cheap if we're ahead and when much money goes in on ace-hi boards his range will be such that we either stack off bad a lot or fold the best hand a lost. On the other hand, when we don't flop an ace it will be hard to bluff profitably because his range includes so many large pairs.

I think you played postflop very well.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

so what did peachy end up doing?

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

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i think its cool. u get ownd sometimes, but u own him more.

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i kinda have a feeling u get owned more than u would like here. but its hard to say since peachys turn play with KK or AK prob is 100% stinger dependant. i would definitely not be surprised to see AK a LOT here cause he knows that hero knows that he "should" bet AK to balance his bluffs.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

hahaha chris just told me results. i swear to god i didnt know results before i posted. ZING!!!!!

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

Yeah he had AK, and yeah I did expect him to bet it on the turn most of the time. Live and learn I guess.

Re: 50/100 deep vs peachy, thin value?
 

I dont think a 2-way bet can really be correct against a good player that you know very well.

1) When you dont know a player very well they might be tight (folding AX) or they may be loose (calling with jj) but from what you've seen you might speculate he does enough of EITHER to be profitable.

2) If your playing against a player who doesnt have enough history with you or they're bad they may get caught up in the tempo and make BOTH mistakes.

If your playing against a tough player his decisions are going to be good and balanced so he wont make the error in case1. For case 2, if your this agressive he'll pick up on this and ruin these thin value bets.

The bigger problem is with taking "merging" too far that they have too many "bets" in their range (this sounds silly but read it a few times and look at what went wrong in the hand again.) When your playing against strangers (and maybe even regs) you stray farther from optimal play to exploit image, game tempo and reads. But once you have enough history together your history will be a bigger factor than the temporary factors that might let u diverge from optimal play.