2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

Poker Stars, $200 + $15 NL Hold'em Tournament, 300/600 Blinds, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): 13,046
UTG: 11,265
UTG+1: 15,981
UTG+2: 16,820
MP1: 12,032
MP2: 4,210
CO: 3,714
BTN: 6,356
SB: 6,180

Pre-Flop: (1,170) XX dealt to Hero (BB)
4 folds, <font color="red">MP2 raises to 4,180 and is All-In</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls 3,580

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

any ace, k-8 and up, any PP, any two paint, and higher suited connectors. Given ur stack size and the pot odds ur getting, ur calling range has to be only a little tighter than his pushing range, which include the above, any king, and likely lower suited connectors.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

nice fold

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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nice fold

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on a scale of 1-10
how dumb are you?

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

Ax Kx, QJ QT, any pair and some suited connectors like 9T and TJ

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

giving shaun a conservative range of 60%, you can call

22+,A2+,K2+,Q2s+,Q4o+,J3s+,J7o+,T6s+,T8o+,98o,97s+ ,87s

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

given stacksizes and that i think he views adam as on the tighter side, shaun could very well be pushing any 2 here. with pot odds u only need 40% equity, so u can call very wide here.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

i know hero is in BB but shaun has push through rest of table before he gets to BB thus requiring that his range be tighter than if he were on the button or in SB.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

DJK,
Those ranges are way too wide taking every neutral EV call isn't very good.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

77/AT+

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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77/AT+

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that's the top half. what's the bottom half?

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

these ranges are laughable wheres ray to calculate properly.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

ok then, what is ur range?

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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77/AT+

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that's the top half. what's the bottom half?

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I assume he recognizes AS in the BB

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

is everyone forgetting about the rest of the table?

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

My bad.........ATC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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77/AT+

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lol

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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77/AT+

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lol

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Then WTF are you asking for?
some arbitrary range that makes a decision right?
OBV Shaun can make this with a wide range. A 2p2r is in the BB... I hope he is aware...so his range tightens somewhat....but I'm not "In the Loop" so wtf/e


and if u are not tghtening the range,,,then seriously....W T F?

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

I think affording Shaun any pair, any ace, any paint card, prolly any suited connectors and maybe even like most Ts isn't unreasonable (so that's 60%). Sure he's sometimes folding T7 but he's also sometimes pushing ATC.

3 580 / (1 170 + 4 180 + 3 580) = 0.400895857

so I mean we can call with 98o and 87s according to that.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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OBV Shaun can make this with a wide range. A 2p2r is in the BB... I hope he is aware...so his range tightens somewhat

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Right he knows who Adam is, but he also knows he's got an M of 3.5, he's got first in vig, 4/9 people folded to him and all but one of the remaining villains would be calling AI or putting in &gt; 75% of their stack to call him.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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77/AT+

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lol

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Give me your asessment...

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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77/AT+

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lol

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Then WTF are you asking for?
some arbitrary range that makes a decision right?
OBV Shaun can make this with a wide range. A 2p2r is in the BB... I hope he is aware...so his range tightens somewhat....but I'm not "In the Loop" so wtf/e


and if u are not tghtening the range,,,then seriously....W T F?

[/ QUOTE ]
If Shaun only shoved hands which were unexploitable shoves you should be calling wider than that. I'm basing this on nothing, but something like any two face cards, any ace, any pairs, lots of suited kings, K7+, lots of suited queens, Q8+, J7s+, J9o+ sound rightish, but I'm just pulling this out of my ass.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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Then WTF are you asking for?

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I'm asking because it was an interesting spot and it would improve my game to be able to make good decisions in these spots

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some arbitrary range that makes a decision right?

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Yes, I'd like to be able to know which hands I can call with in order to gain +EV in this spot or avoid -EV by making a poor call. Sorry?

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OBV Shaun can make this with a wide range. A 2p2r is in the BB... I hope he is aware...so his range tightens somewhat....but I'm not "In the Loop" so wtf/e

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Not sure what you're going on about here. If you are asking about how Shaun views me in order to gain more info about the hand, thats fine. Shaun probably views me as tight and unwilling to make marginal EV calls in this spot.


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and if u are not tghtening the range,,,then seriously....W T F?

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I think your range was wayyyyyy too tight. Not calling Shaun's shove with 66 is a collosal mustake in my opinion.



No need to flip out man...

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

If you close your eyes and click call it's better than closing your eyes and folding.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

KK+ / AKs imo ftw

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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77/AT+

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lol

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

Jesus I was thinking like 44+ A8s

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

with antes you can call so [censored] light here. I always error on the side of making marignaly bad calls over marginaly bad folds anyways cause its funner and people get scurrrred

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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DJK,
Those ranges are way too wide taking every neutral EV call isn't very good.

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yea i know but like i said 60% was a conservative range for shaun imo. anyways my point is u can call really light here.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

I'm still expecting a Ray equity analysis to make me look like an idiot [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I had a2o and called and im still sort of unsure about it

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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I'm still expecting a Ray equity analysis to make me look like an idiot [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I had a2o and called and im still sort of unsure about it

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Adam it's basically impossible your call was wrong. It would be breakeven if shaun was shoving 66+,A5s+,K9s+,Q9s+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+

I'd bet my life savings that shaun is pushing much wider than that.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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nice fold

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Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

Your equity is exactly 50% against 60% of hands.

Hand 0: 50.000% 46.95% 03.05% 7041974880 457934172.00 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T3s+, 95s+, 85s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K3o+, Q5o+, J7o+, T7o+, 97o+, 87o }
Hand 1: 50.000% 46.95% 03.05% 7041939816 457934172.00 { A2o }

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

hmmmmmmmmm 8 big blinds, id say hes shoving any ace in this spot, and pair, hands maybe 78 suited and up. id call with king jack and above, pairs above 6's or better i think. Im just thinking intuititvely but thats probably pretty close to optimal

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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Then WTF are you asking for?

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I'm asking because it was an interesting spot and it would improve my game to be able to make good decisions in these spots

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some arbitrary range that makes a decision right?

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Yes, I'd like to be able to know which hands I can call with in order to gain +EV in this spot or avoid -EV by making a poor call. Sorry?

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OBV Shaun can make this with a wide range. A 2p2r is in the BB... I hope he is aware...so his range tightens somewhat....but I'm not "In the Loop" so wtf/e

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Not sure what you're going on about here. If you are asking about how Shaun views me in order to gain more info about the hand, thats fine. Shaun probably views me as tight and unwilling to make marginal EV calls in this spot.


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and if u are not tghtening the range,,,then seriously....W T F?

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I think your range was wayyyyyy too tight. Not calling Shaun's shove with 66 is a collosal mustake in my opinion.



No need to flip out man...

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Sorry...I get d r u n k and think I'm smart in that not at all sort of way. I really have no business posting here. I am, however, highly qualified to lurk.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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hmmmmmmmmm 8 big blinds, id say hes shoving any ace in this spot, and pair, hands maybe 78 suited and up. id call with king jack and above, pairs above 6's or better i think. Im just thinking intuititvely but thats probably pretty close to optimal

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You can't put him on that range and fold 22-55/KT (and a few other hands). I mean I know you were just ballparking it, without running the numbers, I'm just saying for the sake of discussion, if that's Shaun's range, you don't need 66+.
Adam,
No way is A2 not a call here.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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hmmmmmmmmm 8 big blinds, id say hes shoving any ace in this spot, and pair, hands maybe 78 suited and up. id call with king jack and above, pairs above 6's or better i think. Im just thinking intuititvely but thats probably pretty close to optimal

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this isnt even close to optimal. 22 is a snap call.

and shaun im not sure what analysis ray is going to do that i havnt shown in this thread. if BB was a random and not adam i know you would be shoving any 2 (at least you should be) having adam in the BB might make you shove a little tighter, but it shouldn't drastically affect your shoving range. i dont have access to sngpt at the moment, but im pretty sure adam calling more correctly than randoms isnt going to reduce shaun's optimal shoving range by thatt much due to how much is in the pot preflop compared to shaun's stack. also i think (could be wrong) that adam is on the tighter side and im guessing shaun knows that too.

imo there would be nothing wrong with calling with the entire range i posted in my original reply. they were all at least slightly +cEV against a 60% range, which as i've said is a conservative range for shaun imo. plus adam's got a decent stack and would still be fine if he loses the hand.
but if you don't like very marginal plays then i guess call a little tighter.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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hmmmmmmmmm 8 big blinds, id say hes shoving any ace in this spot, and pair, hands maybe 78 suited and up. id call with king jack and above, pairs above 6's or better i think. Im just thinking intuititvely but thats probably pretty close to optimal

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You can't put him on that range and fold 22-55/KT (and a few other hands). I mean I know you were just ballparking it, without running the numbers, I'm just saying for the sake of discussion, if that's Shaun's range, you don't need 66+.
Adam,
No way is A2 not a call here.

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ya your right, my calling range is probably off because i didnt poker stove it or anything, so i should call with 22-55, but i think his shoving range is pretty accurate

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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I'm still expecting a Ray equity analysis to make me look like an idiot [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I had a2o and called and im still sort of unsure about it

[/ QUOTE ] i didnt even see this be4, calling with a 2 is maybe marginally bad to breakeven to possibly barely plus ev, i really dont think shaun is shoving any 2 here. maybe im nitty, and also it could be that i havent played much with shaun deeb so im not exactly sure what his specific range in this spot is. if his shove was 2 blinds more it would be a snap fold imo because ud be down to 12-13 blinds if u lost which wont even be re raise f/e really. so this makes me a little more inclined to gamble since we have 15 bb's if we call and lose but id prob still fold a 2 call with like a 5 s and a 6 o maybe thinking about it again, but u really cant be faulted much for calling there.

Re: 2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm still expecting a Ray equity analysis to make me look like an idiot [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I had a2o and called and im still sort of unsure about it

[/ QUOTE ] i didnt even see this be4, calling with a 2 is maybe marginally bad to breakeven to possibly barely plus ev, i really dont think shaun is shoving any 2 here. maybe im nitty, and also it could be that i havent played much with shaun deeb so im not exactly sure what his specific range in this spot is. if his shove was 2 blinds more it would be a snap fold imo because ud be down to 12-13 blinds if u lost which wont even be re raise f/e really. so this makes me a little more inclined to gamble since we have 15 bb's if we call and lose but id prob still fold a 2 call with like a 5 s and a 6 o maybe thinking about it again, but u really cant be faulted much for calling there.

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everyone seems to ignore me in this thread or think im retarded or something. ive played with shaun a lot and he is good. a good MTT player is shoving a v wide range here. if BB was also expert MTT player and calling perfectly, then shaun should tighten his range a bit. thus the BB shud tighten his range some etc etc until an equilibrium is reached where shaun can shove a certain range regardless of how well BB is calling. i don't know what that range is exactly, but i bet it is fairly wide.

edit: what i'm trying to say here is yes shaun's range is gunna be tighter cuz adam is in BB, but not a whole lot tighter than if it was a random. it's still gunna be pretty wide.

but that aside A2o isn't even up for debate.

from an earlier post of mine in this thread

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Adam it's basically impossible your call was wrong. It would be breakeven if shaun was shoving 66+,A5s+,K9s+,Q9s+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+

I'd bet my life savings that shaun is pushing much wider than that.


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