bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

full 25-50 earlier this morning. a bunch of limpers, i limp along otb with QTcc. i think there's 7 of us to the flop, which comes 9c 8c 3x. sb (dan from florida, nestegg's brother) leads for 500, ep limper calls 500, skinny jimmy on my immediate right makes it 2100 to go.

i have about 17k, dan has about 15k (very unusual for him, he typically puts like 100k on the table), ep caller only about 5k, jimmy covers.

my play?

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

does jimmy raise 99 pre?

if you still have that famous nitty image and make it 7k straight he has to fold 333 right?

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

u think mike has a nitty image? i've only played with him once and didn't know it was him at the time but i thought he was a bit crazy

that and trying to make ppl fold sets on 983 boards is somethin i just generally steer clear of

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

i flat it. then REAV on the turn.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

i think i probably just fold, is that bad?

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think i probably just fold, is that bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

nah - i fold too - it just doesn't make for a very fun thread!

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
that and trying to make ppl fold sets on 983 boards is somethin i just generally steer clear of


[/ QUOTE ]


yeah - that's because YOU get looked up with like Q9 here.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

Is 300BB's considered very deep for live? Calling 2100 for ~3450 here obv lots easier closing action, but it seems pretty apparent that the only card you REALLY like is the J non-club, and your other outs are likely lessened or compromised.

This nit either folds, or takes ~8k off the table and shoves(Bellagio allows that, right?).

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
take ~8k off the table and shoves(Bellagio allows that, right?).

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no i dont think so?

i'd fold too

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is 300BB's considered very deep for live? Calling 2100 for ~3450 here obv lots easier closing action, but it seems pretty apparent that the only card you REALLY like is the J non-club, and your other outs are likely lessened or compromised.

This nit either folds, or takes ~8k off the table and shoves(Bellagio allows that, right?).

[/ QUOTE ]

are you saying the Jc is bad because it will kill hero's action or because you think it won't give him a straight flush.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

I would like to see you call and felt Jimmy here but I'm biased because he was really pissing me off last time I played. I'm assuming we're not putting Jimmy on a flush draw here? Or is he capable of playing a bigger flush draw like this- you know him better than I do. In which case, I guess it's ep guy we're worried about. I would lean towards a fold as well sadly, partially because Detroit boy is probably capable of getting away from your flush if it hits (I'm guessing he's going to know what you have.)

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

Easy fold, surprised some are considering calling. So many problems with continuing here. Flat-calling screams clubs and you're not felting anyone with your Q-high flush if it hits. If anything you're getting stacked yourself. Also you're not closing the action, and one of the EPs could easily repop this with a set. What are the plausible arguments for calling!? That you have a flush draw semi-deep? Forget it. Fold and get'em later.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

Teddy said it very well

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

pitch it
ALL HAIL CTS

results
 

ok i'm glad consensus is that it's a fold. i thought for a while and considered making it 7k to go, but decided to muck it. me and jimmy have played tons together, he is never ever never folding a set to me. if dan has a set or 2pr or even bigger clubs he's probly just gonna push, i didn't like the idea of getting caught in the middle.

anyway, i muck, dan insta-shoves, jimmy calls with top2, dan flips over 3c2c. another 3 peels off on the turn, river blank, poker is fun.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is 300BB's considered very deep for live? Calling 2100 for ~3450 here obv lots easier closing action, but it seems pretty apparent that the only card you REALLY like is the J non-club, and your other outs are likely lessened or compromised.

This nit either folds, or takes ~8k off the table and shoves(Bellagio allows that, right?).

[/ QUOTE ]

are you saying the Jc is bad because it will kill hero's action or because you think it won't give him a straight flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops, missed that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

It sucks, but it should be easy fold.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

I'd happily fold it while thinking to myself how many that would stack off and be drawing dead.. I'd only call with nutflush draw and a set, never raise I think.

Let's say hero has JTc or 76c. Is push the only option here? What about calling and hoping for even more action behind? A good player would fold a low set to a push. On the other hand you'd probably face a push if someone behind has a big flushdraw, while he'd probably fold to your push.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

I fold.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

100k for a 25-20 game is quite funny to me, I would fold anyway, people at the Bellagio bet their draw all the time, so any King or Ace hi draw is getting you at the end, even if you got the inside str8 draw, easy fold.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

u have no implied odds t_t

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

Say curse words, give dealer an awful look, muck cards face up , cash out, go to Rhino.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

easy fold. potentially drawing dead when a club comes this deep would suck pretty hard.

edit: cept for J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

this hand is a train-wreck waiting to happen. while it hurts to fold this board, it is the most sensible thing to do.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
does jimmy raise 99 pre?

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Yes. His range is 33, 98, any good draw and quite possibly something like A9 or K9s. He limps with those types of hands, although I'm not sure if he raises them on this flop. Regardless, his range is a lot wider than a set, and if it's a set it's bottom set.

But I have no idea who Dan is and yeah, agreed with everyone else that it's a fold.

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

what is the problem with calling and reevaling? - does he have a bigger draw too often?

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think i probably just fold, is that bad?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is.

Best regards, the former AyScoopU

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

clear fold imo. teddy said it well.

tc

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

What do you guys do if we have j10cc

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

folding QTcc raising JTcc

Re: bellagio 25-50: big draw very deep. is this close or no?
 

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what is the problem with calling and reevaling? - does he have a bigger draw too often?

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The bigger problems are that we're not closing the action and we're not calling a push (as it would have played out here). Also sets/2pair aren't giving more action when a club falls because our hand looks exactly like clubs.

So, yeah. We've invested 1bb and the reverse implied odds >>>> the implied ones.