3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

I have never played villian before this session.. Villain is a maniac, pots and repots allmost every hand nomatter position and he c-bet 10/10.. I have played a bit passive against him.. Callede light in position and folded on the flop...

In this hand im called him because of position, with a semi bad hand.. I flop mid set against, and choose a passive style against him setting up a trap... a short stack moves in behind, and a villian now repots.. my move??


BossMedia Game #830759651: Table Table OH 47 - $3.00/$6.00 - Pot Limit Omaha - 05:56:18 - 2007/11/17
Seat 1: gizmochez ($306.00)
Seat 2: Hadendude ($2915.77)
Seat 3: ICheckFold ($1911.29)
Seat 4: pokernoob9 ($269.96)
Seat 5: Ibetmywife ($603.00)
Hadendude posts the small blind of $3.00
ICheckFold posts the big blind of $6.00
gizmochez is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ICheckFold [9h 9c 4h Kd]
pokernoob9 calls $6.00
Ibetmywife folds
gizmochez calls $6.00
Hadendude raises $30.00
ICheckFold calls $30.00
pokernoob9 calls $30.00
gizmochez calls $30.00
*** FLOP *** [7c Ah 9s]
Hadendude bets $114.00
ICheckFold calls $114.00
pokernoob9 goes all-in with $239.96
gizmochez folds
Hadendude raises $587.92
ICheckFold??

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

muck preflop!!!!

On the flop, ship it in.... how often does he turn up with AAA here?

Almost impossible to fold mid set against an overly aggro opponent imho.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

I probably get it in... the shortstack would be raising preflop with AA and lagmonkey could have any number of draws

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

Villain seems to know what he is during.. Would he repot.. with a draw in this spot??

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is a maniac, pots and repots allmost every hand nomatter position and he c-bet 10/10

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Would he repot.. with a draw in this spot??

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a serious question?

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

woah, you guys are pretty deep. Sick spot

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

Im not stacking off so deep. He will have you crushed or flipping to much with these stacks.

You have postion so u could maybe call flop and reevaluate.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

@ iggy.. yes..??

I think this is a very difficult spot.. I could se villian repopping with A7 A9 AA 77 and maybe a big draw, mostly because i look like a draw.. How often do u think he is holding
AA in this spot(my hand is dead)?
How often a draw (50/50)?
or a hand that i beat (his hand is dead)?

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

there are lots of other possibilities, chief among them that he has two pair (10% or so to win) or a draw that is 30%-40%. Against a maniac it is just a question of how best to get the money in, even this deep.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

just because someone is maniacal preflop and with lots of bets on the flop as the pfr doesnt mean at all that he get big money in without the goods, esp in deep PLO.

I would probably let it go actually even thought its close, if I proceed its prolly with a call and the intention to get it in on most turns

and fold pf for sure.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]
just because someone is maniacal preflop and with lots of bets on the flop as the pfr doesnt mean at all that he get big money in without the goods, esp in deep PLO.

[/ QUOTE ]
well yes, but the OP said he is a maniac, to me that means more than just he is aggro preflop and continuation bets a lot. It's possible OP got a false impression of how loose the guy plays based on his preflop activity, it's hard to say any more without knowing the player better.

Having said all that your hand looks like it can be a draw here, so even a moderately aggro player can be isolating with worse.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

I agree with blopp in this.. I think it is a Fold.. I only invested 144$ in the pot.. A now i playing for 3 BI, where im mostly dead or best case a coinflip.. But i didn't play that way.. I shoved and shipped a nice pot..

ICheckFold raises $1337.88
Hadendude goes all-in with $2885.77
ICheckFold goes all-in with $1881.29
*** TURN *** [7c Ah 9s] [7h]
*** RIVER *** [7c Ah 9s 7h] [Tc]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4119.54 | Rake $3.00
Board: [7c Ah 9s 7h Tc]
gizmochez won ($0.00), mucks
Hadendude won ($0.00), showed [3s 8h Ts 6c]
ICheckFold won ($4119.54), showed [9h 9c 4h Kd]
pokernoob9 won ($0.00), showed [8s 8d 6s 8c]
Ibetmywife won ($0.00), mucks

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

Sans-results obviously, I really think this should be a fold 100% of the time. You guys are so deep that it just doesn't make any sense to stack off with middle set in a 2bet pot preflop, especially against a maniac that from what you have described, is going to give the money back regardless. Here, you held up as what, a 65/35 favorite, whereas I would expect that you are generally going to be getting it in as a 85/15 dog most of the time in this spot. (Is that math even close to right?)

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

I know who I'm buddylisting after this hand

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

Jesus, how can one fold with these reads... This is such a sick easy repot, havent seen such an easy one in a long long time

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

So standard against bad maniac. I don´t see anything interesting in this hand. Also LOL @ considering folding this. Usually you are a huge favourite (against top2 or something like top+bottom+gutshot or like that). If flop would have had FD that you didn´t have, I would just call on the flop.

Roundtower is getting this spot right in his analysis. On average we get money in here as a 60/40-65/35 favourite. I take these odds every day.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sans-results obviously, I really think this should be a fold 100% of the time. You guys are so deep that it just doesn't make any sense to stack off with middle set in a 2bet pot preflop, especially against a maniac that from what you have described, is going to give the money back regardless. Here, you held up as what, a 65/35 favorite, whereas I would expect that you are generally going to be getting it in as a 85/15 dog most of the time in this spot. (Is that math even close to right?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey gordo,

I respect your posts a lot and they generally make a lot of sense to me when I read them, so I was curious as to the fact that you said this should be a fold 100% of the time.

In the OP, he describes the villain as a complete maniac who has repotted everything and c-bet 100% of the time. Do you really think that this kind of villain is going to be flipping up AAA everytime he repops this flop and we come over the top of that?? Surely this kind of opponent is going to be making this move with AA, 77, A9, wraps and possibly A7. Similarly, when we come back over the top of his 3-bet, how much do you think his range is going to tighten up? Most likely he drops A7, possibly A9 and *maybe* 77. If our hand looks like a set, I can't see him dropping any draw that we might be ahead of, it just seems more likely he'd rather get it in as a 35/65 or 40/60 dog and gamble. From the description I gathered, this guy wasn't a solid LAG but a complete maniac. Having said all that, I can't see how this hand possibly warrants a fold 100% of the time.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

Also fold preflop.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]


Hey gordo,

I respect your posts a lot and they generally make a lot of sense to me when I read them, so I was curious as to the fact that you said this should be a fold 100% of the time.

In the OP, he describes the villain as a complete maniac who has repotted everything and c-bet 100% of the time. Do you really think that this kind of villain is going to be flipping up AAA everytime he repops this flop and we come over the top of that?? Surely this kind of opponent is going to be making this move with AA, 77, A9, wraps and possibly A7. Similarly, when we come back over the top of his 3-bet, how much do you think his range is going to tighten up? Most likely he drops A7, possibly A9 and *maybe* 77. If our hand looks like a set, I can't see him dropping any draw that we might be ahead of, it just seems more likely he'd rather get it in as a 35/65 or 40/60 dog and gamble. From the description I gathered, this guy wasn't a solid LAG but a complete maniac. Having said all that, I can't see how this hand possibly warrants a fold 100% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking was completely based on stack sizes... His line really is pretty suggestive of AAA and IMO OP is too deep to warrant getting it in there with middle set even though it is against a maniac... The worst feeling in poker is paying off the guy at the table who is going to spread the wealth around the table regardless; I just prefer to wait for an easier spot.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Hey gordo,

I respect your posts a lot and they generally make a lot of sense to me when I read them, so I was curious as to the fact that you said this should be a fold 100% of the time.

In the OP, he describes the villain as a complete maniac who has repotted everything and c-bet 100% of the time. Do you really think that this kind of villain is going to be flipping up AAA everytime he repops this flop and we come over the top of that?? Surely this kind of opponent is going to be making this move with AA, 77, A9, wraps and possibly A7. Similarly, when we come back over the top of his 3-bet, how much do you think his range is going to tighten up? Most likely he drops A7, possibly A9 and *maybe* 77. If our hand looks like a set, I can't see him dropping any draw that we might be ahead of, it just seems more likely he'd rather get it in as a 35/65 or 40/60 dog and gamble. From the description I gathered, this guy wasn't a solid LAG but a complete maniac. Having said all that, I can't see how this hand possibly warrants a fold 100% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking was completely based on stack sizes... His line really is pretty suggestive of AAA and IMO OP is too deep to warrant getting it in there with middle set even though it is against a maniac... The worst feeling in poker is paying off the guy at the table who is going to spread the wealth around the table regardless; I just prefer to wait for an easier spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your opinion is biased from usually playing better opponents than this. In PLO400 level you see so much "interesting" maniac-type of players, that you can never fold this. Against good LAG it´s completely different story.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

I fold pre for sure and most of the time on the flop. I think id need some backup to ensure i wasnt drawing to 1 out. With some sort of straight draws/backdoor flush draws id go with it.

Btw Gordo- are you still playing ub? I can see your opinion from playing on there!

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]


Btw Gordo- are you still playing ub? I can see your opinion from playing on there!

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, anything but the 10/25 and higher on UB are absolute rock-garden terrible EV games IMO, and tbh I just dont trust UB/AP enough to keep a significant amount of money on their site for when the rare 50/100 HU game gets going.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]

Your opinion is biased from usually playing better opponents than this. In PLO400 level you see so much "interesting" maniac-type of players, that you can never fold this. Against good LAG it´s completely different story.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's actually 3/6, which I think makes a somewhat substantial difference..

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

havent read all the new replies but the max-buy in at Boss is 200bb so 3/6 plays pretty deep/high.

also, op said he called preflop because of position, but the relative position is very bad, someone might raise behind and if someone calls he will have to act directly after the pfr that most likely will cont bet.

as for the hand I still think just folding is the best play for sure.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

"but the max-buy in at Boss is 200bb so 3/6 plays pretty deep.
"

Wrong, only 100BB, its b2b they have 200bb deep buyin

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]
"but the max-buy in at Boss is 200bb so 3/6 plays pretty deep.
"

Wrong, only 100BB, its b2b they have 200bb deep buyin

[/ QUOTE ]
ok, me wrong if so.. I know B2B have 200bb max at the non-micro stakes but I assumed boss was 200bb sinse Swedish government site (Svenska spel) have 200bb max and is a separated site runned by Boss Media.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

Easy repot. I can't come up with a range of hands for villain where you don't have equity to get it in. Clear but small edge vs. what he'll show up with.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

If you're willing to take a flop with that hand you must be willing to play 2nd nuts when you hit.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you're willing to take a flop with that hand you must be willing to play 2nd nuts when you hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats nonsense

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

Those who say fold. Dont you think he plays 77xx like this 100% of the time?

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

The people who are advocating a fold here are waaaaaaay off the mark. I can't believe how many well-respected posters are going along with that. He's raising everything so we have no reason to assume he has AA based on preflop action, and if I'm villain in this hand, I repot A9 after a call and a short-stack push without even thinking about it, so his range should be at least that wide.

Given the read that he's a maniac, I'd think you'd have to consider hands like A7, 97, and all matter of wraps as well. The fact is that even excluding draws, we're probably about 75% against his range here. Folding this hand is like lighting money on fire.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]
The people who are advocating a fold here are waaaaaaay off the mark. I can't believe how many well-respected posters are going along with that. He's raising everything so we have no reason to assume he has AA based on preflop action, and if I'm villain in this hand, I repot A9 after a call and a short-stack push without even thinking about it, so his range should be at least that wide.

Given the read that he's a maniac, I'd think you'd have to consider hands like A7, 97, and all matter of wraps as well. The fact is that even excluding draws, we're probably about 75% against his range here. Folding this hand is like lighting money on fire.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm definitely in your camp iggy, but I think the issue raised by those advocating a fold is that once we come back over the top of his raise for like 200BB, what range will he call us with?

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

If you really think that he's reraising that whole range, and then folding everything but AA to a push, you should smooth-call the 3-bet. Honestly though, I think he's definitely calling 77 and probably calling A9 too (in addition to all the draws). A7 or worse, I agree that he's probably folding.

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The people who are advocating a fold here are waaaaaaay off the mark. I can't believe how many well-respected posters are going along with that. He's raising everything so we have no reason to assume he has AA based on preflop action, and if I'm villain in this hand, I repot A9 after a call and a short-stack push without even thinking about it, so his range should be at least that wide.

Given the read that he's a maniac, I'd think you'd have to consider hands like A7, 97, and all matter of wraps as well. The fact is that even excluding draws, we're probably about 75% against his range here. Folding this hand is like lighting money on fire.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm definitely in your camp iggy, but I think the issue raised by those advocating a fold is that once we come back over the top of his raise for like 200BB, what range will he call us with?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maniacs call with any draw. Openender or better (actually they push).

Re: 3/6 deep vs maniac..
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you really think that he's reraising that whole range, and then folding everything but AA to a push, you should smooth-call the 3-bet. Honestly though, I think he's definitely calling 77 and probably calling A9 too (in addition to all the draws). A7 or worse, I agree that he's probably folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I was just playing devil's advocate. I agree entirely with the range you've given him although I think if he has any shred of intelligence he might drop A9, but in my experience he's probably fistpumpcalling with 77 and looking to gamboooool with anything resembling a draw. That's why I can't understand why it would be a 'clear' fold, especially given the way we've played our hand up until this point.