The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

Dustin Dirksen how much is this guy down? gotta be 6 figures

doesn't seem like they are doing too well playing omaha?

amirite?

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

no

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

wasnt itslinda or someone like that very successful at shorstacking the nose bleeds?

i know dustin starts out with the minimum but he is as loose as gus. i dont know if he can win long term like that.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

i think it's weird that everyone in the world hates shortstackers, but when durrrr and raptor rathole, no one says anything.

i don't have a problem with it, whatever makes you the money, but it's sad the double standard on this forum.

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

shortstacking in omaha is much less effective.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think it's weird that everyone in the world hates shortstackers, but when durrrr and raptor rathole, no one says anything.

i don't have a problem with it, whatever makes you the money, but it's sad the double standard on this forum.

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Those who hate shortstackers don't understand the game. But what do you care?

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
shortstacking in omaha is much less effective.

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i'm pretty sure this isn't true. there's a lot of people making a lot of money doing this.

tc

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

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[ QUOTE ]
shortstacking in omaha is much less effective.

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i'm pretty sure this isn't true. there's a lot of people making a lot of money doing this.


tc

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very true, in nl a shortstacker can be all in pre-flop with only a 5% chance, where in omaha..

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

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shortstacking in omaha is much less effective.

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i'm pretty sure this isn't true. there's a lot of people making a lot of money doing this.

tc

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QFT, I know of a few who have been very successful doing this at nosebleed stakes.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

peachykeen is doing it, doesn't seem to be working too well for him but i think he's jus trying to learn the game still so he's startin off small. also it seems like both of his accts have been playin at once dk what's up with that

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

It's very hard to make mistakes when you buy in for minimum. He's just trying pushing when he's getting good odds on his money. Kind of gay.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
peachykeen is doing it, doesn't seem to be working too well for him but i think he's jus trying to learn the game still so he's startin off small. also it seems like both of his accts have been playin at once dk what's up with that

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what 2 accounts?

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shortstacking in omaha is much less effective.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm pretty sure this isn't true. there's a lot of people making a lot of money doing this.

tc

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im not saying people can't do it very successfully. but a shortstacker can never have as big of an equity advantage in PLO as compared to NL.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shortstacking in omaha is much less effective.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm pretty sure this isn't true. there's a lot of people making a lot of money doing this.

tc

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this is true. less effective doesnt equal not effective.

the main mistake people make against shortstackers is calling their bets/raises with hands that are severely dominated and they have no implied odds or bluff opportunites. in omaha fewer hands are severely dominated (especially pre flop)

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think it's weird that everyone in the world hates shortstackers, but when durrrr and raptor rathole, no one says anything.

i don't have a problem with it, whatever makes you the money, but it's sad the double standard on this forum.

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Those who hate shortstackers don't understand the game. But what do you care?

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you elaborate?

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shortstacking in omaha is much less effective.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm pretty sure this isn't true. there's a lot of people making a lot of money doing this.

tc

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im not saying people can't do it very successfully. but a shortstacker can never have as big of an equity advantage in PLO as compared to NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

doesnt this work both ways? one can never be as big a dog either.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

prett sure i saw dirksen up 500K+ on highstakes.nu

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

I think the advantage is bigger in PLO.

Hands being closer in value means:

1. You can stick it in pre more often,

2. You gain a lot more by being all-in on the flop because even when you missed the flop you still have substantial equity... in NL when you miss you are typically way behind.

3. The preflop domination effect is a lot less significant in PLO which means you will rarely be hurt for your inability to get 100 BB's in preflop. (Except against big donks.)

and

4. In practice it is WAY more common for someone to play PLO too loose than to play NLHE too loose. (I would say easily 80%+ of FTP 200/400 PLO players play too loose pre.)

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

its simple why omaha is way better to shortstack than HE. you can resteal and when you get called, its 51/49 no matter what tyou have

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

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its simple why omaha is way better to shortstack than HE. you can resteal and when you get called, its 51/49 no matter what tyou have

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Pretty much :-). If anyone's interested, Rolf Slotboom's book has some interesting discussion of short-stacking PLO.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

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[ QUOTE ]
peachykeen is doing it, doesn't seem to be working too well for him but i think he's jus trying to learn the game still so he's startin off small. also it seems like both of his accts have been playin at once dk what's up with that

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what 2 accounts?

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p_c4Libr4ted and n0rthf4ce

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

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peachykeen is doing it, doesn't seem to be working too well for him

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fwiw in my experience p3achykeen is pretty bad at fullstacked omaha, i would guess he is shorstacking to get a feel for it, but maybe not.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

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Those who hate shortstackers don't understand the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

"the main mistake people make against shortstackers is calling their bets/raises with hands that are severely dominated and they have no implied odds or bluff opportunites. in omaha fewer hands are severely dominated (especially pre flop)"

Really? I am pretty sure at the mid-high stakes, semi decent players aren't calling a 4bb raise from a guy with 20bbs to set mine.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
"the main mistake people make against shortstackers is calling their bets/raises with hands that are severely dominated and they have no implied odds or bluff opportunites. in omaha fewer hands are severely dominated (especially pre flop)"

Really? I am pretty sure at the mid-high stakes, semi decent players aren't calling a 4bb raise from a guy with 20bbs to set mine.

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its funny when someone makes a cleverly crafted condescending remark like this when they just didn't understand the post they responded to. sorry if i misinterpreted and you weren't being condescending but it sure seemed that way.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

If your not short stacking PLO you are essentially playing flips every time you see a flop... might not be for your whole stack, but a substantial amount since draws are pushed so hard

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

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If your not short stacking PLO you are essentially playing flips every time you see a flop

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come on guys.


anyway, enough ripping on people, my own comments on shortstacking plo are that I think it could be very profitable because in high-nosebleed stakes people are more likely to just ignore the shorstacks and see them as just adding money to the pot, and kinda play like the shortstacks don't exist, as opposed to holdem where people adjust to them somewhat better.

Not sure if that came out like how I mean, but I do think that a smart plo shortstacker could make a comparable amount to a smart nlh shortstacker, and possibly much more. However I also think that being a very good plo shortstacker is much more difficult than being a very good nlh shortstacker, but I'm just guessing on all of this.


PS shorstacks please die

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

And yet very good players make long term profit at several bb/100 hands. Short-stacking does not change your flop equity , all it does is make getting it in light on the flop correct more often.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

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[ QUOTE ]

Those who hate shortstackers don't understand the game.

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wrong

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The game is what the game is. It isn't what any prescriptive ruleset says it is, and it certainly isn't what you want and perhaps imagine it to be.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

Stats from highstakesdb

01.01.07-11.11.07 | FTP PLO

Losers
Results Session Hands Hours

Dustin Dirksen
$-565.691,00 106 6923 80,57

01.01.07-15.11.07 | FTP PLO

Losers
Results Session Hands Hours

Dustin Dirksen
$-740.422,50 163 9656 118,6


01.01.07-16.11.07 | FTP PLO

Losers
Results Session Hands Hours

Dustin Dirksen
$-892.378,00 183 10738 132,27

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
Short-stacking does not change your flop equity , all it does is make getting it in light on the flop correct more often.

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This isn't really true though. In multiway pots, just the fact that someone will usually flop a made type hand and someone else a draw, the made hand can often bet the draw hand out, cleaning up your own draws, or the strong draw hand can bet out the 2 pair hand, allowing you to win with 2 weaker pair or even one pair if his draws miss.

As an example, say you c/r all-in preflop with KQQJds. You are against AK76ds that duplicates both your flush draws, only better, and JJT8 from the third guy. On a flop of JT4 rainbow, the JJT8 puts pressure to fold the other guy, and opens up the two queens as outs for you as well as opening up 2 back door flush draws.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

rolf slotboom wrote the book on short staking plo

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

luck123 seems to to do well at shortstacking plo. buys in for 8k does afew flips

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Those who hate shortstackers don't understand the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong

[/ QUOTE ]
The game is what the game is. It isn't what any prescriptive ruleset says it is, and it certainly isn't what you want and perhaps imagine it to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

so if i hate shorstacks because they make me and other people at the table play differently than if they weren't there, and in many cases make me win less money, I only hate them because I don't understand the game? Also if sites allowed you to sit with 0.1bb, would that be cool with you? It would all be part of the game of course. What if they only allowed 100bb or more?

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Those who hate shortstackers don't understand the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong

[/ QUOTE ]
The game is what the game is. It isn't what any prescriptive ruleset says it is, and it certainly isn't what you want and perhaps imagine it to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

so if i hate shorstacks because they make me and other people at the table play differently than if they weren't there, and in many cases make me win less money, I only hate them because I don't understand the game? Also if sites allowed you to sit with 0.1bb, would that be cool with you? It would all be part of the game of course. What if they only allowed 100bb or more?

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you trying to prove your point or mine?

Don't hate the player – this is well known. But also don't hate the game. Be one with the game. Then you don't beat the game, you simply find that it pays well.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
shortstacking in omaha is much less effective.




[/ QUOTE ]

That is incorrect

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:

Quote:
shortstacking in omaha is much less effective.



i'm pretty sure this isn't true. there's a lot of people making a lot of money doing this.

tc



im not saying people can't do it very successfully. but a shortstacker can never have as big of an equity advantage in PLO as compared to NL.


[/ QUOTE ]

not to be a jerk, but you are wrong and you dont understand what a short stacker is trying to do

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Those who hate shortstackers don't understand the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong

[/ QUOTE ]
The game is what the game is. It isn't what any prescriptive ruleset says it is, and it certainly isn't what you want and perhaps imagine it to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

so if i hate shorstacks because they make me and other people at the table play differently than if they weren't there, and in many cases make me win less money, I only hate them because I don't understand the game? Also if sites allowed you to sit with 0.1bb, would that be cool with you? It would all be part of the game of course. What if they only allowed 100bb or more?

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you trying to prove your point or mine?

Don't hate the player – this is well known. But also don't hate the game. Be one with the game. Then you don't beat the game, you simply find that it pays well.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf? i can hate the player if i want. fu

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Those who hate shortstackers don't understand the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong

[/ QUOTE ]
The game is what the game is. It isn't what any prescriptive ruleset says it is, and it certainly isn't what you want and perhaps imagine it to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

so if i hate shorstacks because they make me and other people at the table play differently than if they weren't there, and in many cases make me win less money, I only hate them because I don't understand the game? Also if sites allowed you to sit with 0.1bb, would that be cool with you? It would all be part of the game of course. What if they only allowed 100bb or more?

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you trying to prove your point or mine?

Don't hate the player – this is well known. But also don't hate the game. Be one with the game. Then you don't beat the game, you simply find that it pays well.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf? i can hate the player if i want. fu

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think poker is for you... but you are definitely for poker. Sit at my table any time.

Re: The NL kids who short stack omaha now
 

shortstacking omaha well is more effective than shortstacking NL well in general.