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The psycology of tilt

I have been giving a lot of thought today to what factors separate highly tilt-prone players from those players that struggle with tilt less often. I often feel bad, because a lot of friends of mine are severely inhibited by tilt, and I wish that I could at least help them start down the right road towards managing this problem. This is my attempt.

First let me say that there are big differences between recognizing a problem, understanding a problem, and managing a problem. While there have been many attempts, both by amateurs and seasoned professionals, to help people with this particular problem, most of these attempts that I have seen are somewhat misguided, because they lack a certain fundamental understanding of human behavior.

If you missed an easy layup at the buzzer of a high school state championship basketball game, and your mother approached you and told you that it was okay, and that it's just a game, would you jump up and yell "Yay! Let's all go to McDonald's!"? Probably not. If your old man told you that you should stop smoking cigarettes because they are bad for you, would you say "Golly. I guess you're right, pops." and never pick up another cigarette again? Probably not. Things just don't work that way. Logic does not override peoples' hard-coded responses and urges. Fear can override them. Conflicting responses and urges can override them, but for the most part, logic isn't much help in the now. In order to use rational thinking to help manage your problems, you must work hard to condition yourself while you are thinking rationally. Having a mantra, or a cliche, or a picture on the ready for when you're thinking irrationally just isn't going to cut it. It will lose its effect, just like an ill conceived New Year's resolution.

Ok, so how do we go about managing the problem? Well, first we should understand the problem, and not just look at the end effect. When it comes to poker related behaviors, this can be very hard to do, because there are so many unique factors in play. If a person that has problems with tilt control were to go to a psycologist, that psycologist would probably come to the conclusion that he/she was compulsive, addiction prone, egomaniacal, and displayed strong tendencies of any combination of various personality disorders that you can think of. Guess what, though? That same psycologist is going to draw similar conclusions about a high percentage of poker players that aren't as tilt prone, also. The fact of the matter is that these tendencies are very common among all poker players, whether they're tilt monkies or not.

So, what is it then that separates players with regards to tilt? Well, for the most part, its simply a matter of anger levels and how conditioned an individual is to managing their anger. If you are very prone to tilt, think about how you would react in the following situations. If you are not very prone to tilt, think about how someone that you know well, and is every prone to tilt would react in the following situations:

Your favorite football team throws an interception in the last minute of a close game that is returned for a game winning score by the opposing team.

You get cut off in traffic.

An old lady in front of you in line at the grocery store insists on sifting through change for 5 minutes in order to pay an exact ammount.

These are the moments that bring to light the levels of anger within a person, and the people that lose it in any of these situations, tend to lose it in all of these situations, and tend to lose it at the poker table as well. If you're the guy that screams at your television when your team loses, you're going to have a real uphill battle with poker.

Something else that should be added to that, is that although a marginal ammount of self control will suffice in those situations, its not going to do you much good when you're involved in something as intense as a game of poker, as opposed to sitting on your couch and eating potato chips. Don't think that you're going to be okay, just because you're not the type to lash out in those sorts of situations. If you're the type that just boils on the inside, like the guy from "Falling Down", that anger is still there, nonetheless. Your approach might keep you from getting punched at Aldi's, but it won't help you much in poker.

What can you do? Well, you shouldn't go off the deep end just yet. You might be reading this and thinking "Oh my god! That's so me!", and maybe it is, but its everyone to a certain extent. There is no one that doesn't get mad, in life, or in poker. The easiest way to assess the severity of your problem, just like with anything else, is by the consequences of your actions. If your anger is causing you major problems in your life, then it would greatly benefit you to seek professional help, not just for the sake of your poker career. If your problem isn't severe, but its something you would like to work on, there are plenty of free resources available that can provide you with a foundation for that work. I can tell you right now that it will do you no good if you do not continue to work, though, just like lifting weights for a day isn't going to make you any stronger physically.

Try to keep in mind that while the end result of your problem may surface on an imaginary card table, that does not mean that people that spend a lot of time around imaginary card tables are the most qualified to help you with that problem. As nice as it would be to be able to condition your behavior by taping some fortune cookie [censored] onto the side of your monitor, you'll come to find out that in the long run, these type of solutions aren't really any more effective than a rabbit's foot.

If you're serious about looking into effective ways of managing your anger, get on google, start researching, and be prepared to actually spend some time and effort on it, instead of looking for a quick fix. I'll warn you ahead of time, though. Most online resources for these types of things really aren't very well geared towards younger age groups, and so a lot of them will probably come off as fairly cheesy. Its not that hard to improvise a little bit and put your research into a context that makes more sense for you, though.

Final Thought: Watch more Kung Fu

Re: The psycology of tilt

First. Gonna read now!

Re: The psycology of tilt

There is an interesting overview of psychological risk-aversion as related to tilt in the September issue of the 2+2 magazine that is also interesting.

There is an effect that is not necessarily tied to emotions which is common for most people:

[ QUOTE ]
Conversely, as people regard themselves to have accrued losses, they tend to be more willing to risk further losses in exchange for the opportunity to have lost less (i.e. they become more risk-seeking). This is because further losses don't hurt as much as the initial losses did.

[/ QUOTE ]
-- http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/i...auley0907.html

It's useful to keep this effect in mind when evaluating more subtle kinds of tilt.

Re: The psycology of tilt

yeah that 2+2 article is very good. i liked this line from it:

"someone who sees that he is a huge favorite has already 'mentally pocketed' the real dollars as his own"

Re: The psycology of tilt

[ QUOTE ]
There is an interesting overview of psychological risk-aversion as related to tilt in the September issue of the 2+2 magazine that is also interesting.

There is an effect that is not necessarily tied to emotions which is common for most people:

[ QUOTE ]
Conversely, as people regard themselves to have accrued losses, they tend to be more willing to risk further losses in exchange for the opportunity to have lost less (i.e. they become more risk-seeking). This is because further losses don't hurt as much as the initial losses did.

[/ QUOTE ]
-- http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/i...auley0907.html

It's useful to keep this effect in mind when evaluating more subtle kinds of tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with a lot of that article, but i don't agree with the premise. if you make a mental list of the people you know that are very good at excercizing tilt control, and a mental list of people you know that are very bad at exercizing tilt control, you'll see that there is typically a common thread in how those groups of people tend to deal with situations away from the poker table, like the ones that i described above. it is very distinct among the people that i know.

Re: The psycology of tilt

What is the premise of it ?

Re: The psycology of tilt

[ QUOTE ]
What is a premise?

[/ QUOTE ]fyp

nice post tho

Re: The psycology of tilt

BTW ... if anyone start quoting Dr. Al, I am going to go Kung Fu on this thread [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: The psycology of tilt

wow - really good article and well thought out. I really agree with you on how you broke this down.. I find it interesting that in Live play I'am excellent at controlling my emotions while during online play I become much more prone to tilt. I'm currently trying to find a connection from my live game that can help me fix this in my online game. Maybe looking up other resources like you advise will help out. good post.

Re: The psycology of tilt

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What is the premise of it ?

[/ QUOTE ]

i just don't agree with the idea that tilt is largely a nonemotional, mechanical response to being down money. obviously that is a natural and common response, but to say that it is not an emotional response, well, i don't agree.

Re: The psycology of tilt

Well if you've ever worked in a callcenter (as I have), then there is the fun issue of

1. Being on the clock (your calls are supposed to not last long (perhaps max 1 min)

2. Having to sell something to the people that call your 'service desk' (despite there to help people, you are supposed to sell stuff naturally)

And then the icing on the cake

3. Customers calling you are either pissed to start of with or prone to getting pissed, since they hate callcenter employees.

The stuff I learned about tilt there (both presented as theory and thru practice) kicked any poker litteratures presentation big time.

Unfortunately pokerlitterature is written by pokerplayer or Dr. Al, who obviously gets a kick out of being condesending, but offers little in terms of insight unfortunately.

Re: The psycology of tilt

[ QUOTE ]
wow - really good article and well thought out. I really agree with you on how you broke this down.. I find it interesting that in Live play I'am excellent at controlling my emotions while during online play I become much more prone to tilt. I'm currently trying to find a connection from my live game that can help me fix this in my online game. Maybe looking up other resources like you advise will help out. good post.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think a lot of people are like that when it comes to live/online play. maybe the reason is that online you have a higher level of anonymity, whereas live, there's a much higher embarrassment factor. maybe its easier in general. to hate someone that you don't have to sit face-to-face with.

Re: The psycology of tilt

The thing is, that is it a primal instinct we all have inside of us.

You see, when man still has on the missing link level, then danger really meant danger! You know a tiger jumping out of the bushes ... in other words a matter of LIFE AND DEATH.

So under pressure we tend to fall back into that, which is good in the jungle, or depending on what result you wish for, then dealing with other people (go balistic on them)

Poker on the other hand does not award this sort of behavior, it punishes it. (unlike for example chess), the card just fall as they do and you applying pressure only induce even ligther calls from villians.

I for one do not believe that you can just tell yourself to not tilt, nor can you control it at first. Imho there is nothing else to do than internalize it be aware of what is happening, think it over .. rinse wash and repeat. Then after a while it goes from the subconsious to the consious and you start to cope with it.

That is my take on tilt, been wanting to make a post about it for long, but never got around to it

Re: The psycology of tilt

[ QUOTE ]

i just don't agree with the idea that tilt is largely a nonemotional, mechanical response to being down money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't actually trying to imply that all tilt was largely a result of purely psychological factors only involving perceived loss, and I don't think that the article is either. Instead, I think the article points out that this phenomenon is both a contributing factor to why we get emotionally upset in some cases, and how more subtle kinds of tilt can occur even when we don't believe we are emotionally upset.

I think all the points about anger management and dealing with emotional issues that you make are quite valid as well. In fact, you might divide tilt issues into a few rough categories:

1) Tilt from perceived loss. This is what is mainly discussed in the article, and the normally prescribed method of overcoming this is to train yourself to evaluate your play in terms of expectation and decision making, rather than results. As far as the emotional impact of loss, I also think it generally becomes less with experience, and if you are practicing sound bankroll management.

2) Related to (1) is the tendency to project onto your opponents and get angry with them for sucking out, or making some play ("How could you call there???"). I say it's related because it's the perceived loss that motivates the projection, but I think, as the OP points out, if you have the tendency in the rest of your life to get angry at other people in certain situations, than that may increase your likelihood of tilting in this way as well.

3) Tilt from external emotional instability or stress. That is, you're mad at the world and trying to take it out on the donks, more or less.

I agree with you when you say that dealing with emotional health aspects of 2 and 3 requires a great deal of commitment, and really impacts your life way beyond poker. I also think that even for those who are generally fairly stable with regard to (2) and (3), the psychological aspects of risk aversion talked about in the article are worth being aware of.

Re: The psycology of tilt

[ QUOTE ]
The thing is, that is it a primal instinct we all have inside of us.

You see, when man still has on the missing link level, then danger really meant danger! You know a tiger jumping out of the bushes ... in other words a matter of LIFE AND DEATH.

So under pressure we tend to fall back into that, which is good in the jungle, or depending on what result you wish for, then dealing with other people (go balistic on them)

Poker on the other hand does not award this sort of behavior, it punishes it. (unlike for example chess), the card just fall as they do and you applying pressure only induce even ligther calls from villians.

I for one do not believe that you can just tell yourself to not tilt, nor can you control it at first. Imho there is nothing else to do than internalize it be aware of what is happening, think it over .. rinse wash and repeat. Then after a while it goes from the subconsious to the consious and you start to cope with it.

That is my take on tilt, been wanting to make a post about it for long, but never got around to it

[/ QUOTE ]

i think that you're right, at least when it comes to the short term. there really isn't much you can effectively do, short of evasion that's going to be effective, and if you're not thinking rationally, you're less likely to even do that.

i also pretty much have hated almost everything i've ever read on the subject. it was usually just like watching an episode of doctor phil. i'm usually just sitting there thinking "well, you're right of course, but tell me something i don't know, you [censored]"

i think that in the long term, a person really can get much better at managing their tilt response, so long as that person has some sort of handle on what's going on, acknowledges it, and makes a long term effort at reconditioning themselves. i think that's where most people get hung up. winning is their cure, and as soon as that happens, poof, problem solved! well, not so much.

Re: The psycology of tilt

"The accrual of gains and losses reside in the mind, not the wallet. This is a powerful concept"

This is a big one for me. As a recovering and still part-time tilt monkey the thing that would set me off the most would be checking my acct balance or PT stats for the day during the session. This is suicide. Not only does it distract you but it cements that you have actually LOST xxx dollars, which takes you from upset to steamed. One truly does need to convince themselves their is no real money ever being made or lost until a withdrawal or deposit is made. It's like putting money in the markets - they might fluctuate but you don't make or lose any money until the shares are actually sold for a profit or a loss.

On another note I get tilted off bad plays of my own, not bad beats. Bad beats are fine, they happen and we just hope they don't happen for more than 100BB. When I get 2outered for 50BBs I'm happy, cuz it wasn't a whole stack. Mistakes of my own are what send me off the deep end b/c in poker we're not in control of winning money, we're only in control of making the correct decisions to maximize our potential of making money. Thus we construe this as failure.

On another note - "Your favorite football team throws an interception in the last minute of a close game that is returned for a game winning score by the opposing team."
I'm sorry but if this does not elicit a violent and emotional response, you are a complete cupcake and have no business claiming to be a real fan.

Anyways, good post OP.

Re: The psycology of tilt

Yeah, most written is bull ... btw without ever having played live, I suspect that there is the twist, that are staring your 'Enemy' in the eye.

In other words you are in known waters, and you can quickly dertermine, that you can take him man to man or something. The lack or an enemy proper online is what I'm guessing is causing tilt to escalate .. dunno, but it's my guess.

Re: The psycology of tilt

[ QUOTE ]
I for one do not believe that you can just tell yourself to not tilt, nor can you control it at first. Imho there is nothing else to do than internalize it be aware of what is happening, think it over .. rinse wash and repeat. Then after a while it goes from the subconsious to the consious and you start to cope with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is right on.

Re: The psycology of tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I for one do not believe that you can just tell yourself to not tilt, nor can you control it at first. Imho there is nothing else to do than internalize it be aware of what is happening, think it over .. rinse wash and repeat. Then after a while it goes from the subconsious to the consious and you start to cope with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is right on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is definitely correct as well. The poster who mentioned working as a telemarketer is a perfect example of how someone can exercise self control during extremely frustrating times. Recently I've begun to try and apply this kind of self control to all other aspects of my life. I feel that by constantly applying a higher level of self discipline to my emotions than I am used too, I will be able to consciously make much better choices when on tilt at the tables (i.e. get up and wake away, take a breather etc.) Although this takes quite a bit of dedication I think its an excellent way to condition yourself to be less of a results oriented tilt monkey and more of a self-disciplined poker player. just my 2 cents

Re: The psycology of tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I for one do not believe that you can just tell yourself to not tilt, nor can you control it at first. Imho there is nothing else to do than internalize it be aware of what is happening, think it over .. rinse wash and repeat. Then after a while it goes from the subconsious to the consious and you start to cope with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is right on.

[/ QUOTE ]i think that u can tell urself to not tilt. but it is sort of different then to say "woops dont tilt off a stack." i have to take a 10 second break and take a few deep breaths. then tell myself "make sure u think logically." then i go back of said hand or hands that "tilted" me to begin with. this allows me to either figure out if i played the hand optimally and the end result was not what i wanted ie. suckout or cooler. or the other option is that i missplayed a hand (this often tilts me much more then a cooler or sucked out on because i have control of this and hate making mistakes.) so i replay the hand while i am chillin out and the table and settling back down and think of alternative lines or w/e that could make the hand better and thus more profitable.

i think if u keep in mind the overall goal of poker is to be making money (or at least that is mine) that it is pretty tough to tilt knowing that u r in fact doing things that are losing u lots of money and hurting u. so i just try to remind myself that i am doin this to make money and tilting will b worse then just stoping if need be. takin a chill pill and nut pedaling for the next 10 mins is also good and lets u refocus.

Re: The psycology of tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I for one do not believe that you can just tell yourself to not tilt, nor can you control it at first. Imho there is nothing else to do than internalize it be aware of what is happening, think it over .. rinse wash and repeat. Then after a while it goes from the subconsious to the consious and you start to cope with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is right on.

[/ QUOTE ]i think that u can tell urself to not tilt. but it is sort of different then to say "woops dont tilt off a stack." i have to take a 10 second break and take a few deep breaths. then tell myself "make sure u think logically." then i go back of said hand or hands that "tilted" me to begin with. this allows me to either figure out if i played the hand optimally and the end result was not what i wanted ie. suckout or cooler. or the other option is that i missplayed a hand (this often tilts me much more then a cooler or sucked out on because i have control of this and hate making mistakes.) so i replay the hand while i am chillin out and the table and settling back down and think of alternative lines or w/e that could make the hand better and thus more profitable.

i think if u keep in mind the overall goal of poker is to be making money (or at least that is mine) that it is pretty tough to tilt knowing that u r in fact doing things that are losing u lots of money and hurting u. so i just try to remind myself that i am doin this to make money and tilting will b worse then just stoping if need be. takin a chill pill and nut pedaling for the next 10 mins is also good and lets u refocus.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the old Jman argument (or at least I think it was Jman, at least one of the sng greats of yesteryear, and yes he is now also a cash legend, but this was in the 47outs period while he still 'only' played 5/10)

He had a hard time tilting in sngs, because he had worked out all the math and it is hard to push, when you know it it -EV.

But ... things are unclear in cash ... you can play lag or tag .. and there are rumours that you should protect yourself by increasing bluffing and all other stuff.

So all in all, it is harder to discern is you are making a mistake (unlike pushbotting) and this is why tilting like a cow can be so common in cash (which was Jmans observation, he almost never tilted in sngs, but had issues in cash)

Re: The psycology of tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I for one do not believe that you can just tell yourself to not tilt, nor can you control it at first. Imho there is nothing else to do than internalize it be aware of what is happening, think it over .. rinse wash and repeat. Then after a while it goes from the subconsious to the consious and you start to cope with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is right on.

[/ QUOTE ]i think that u can tell urself to not tilt. but it is sort of different then to say "woops dont tilt off a stack." i have to take a 10 second break and take a few deep breaths. then tell myself "make sure u think logically." then i go back of said hand or hands that "tilted" me to begin with. this allows me to either figure out if i played the hand optimally and the end result was not what i wanted ie. suckout or cooler. or the other option is that i missplayed a hand (this often tilts me much more then a cooler or sucked out on because i have control of this and hate making mistakes.) so i replay the hand while i am chillin out and the table and settling back down and think of alternative lines or w/e that could make the hand better and thus more profitable.

i think if u keep in mind the overall goal of poker is to be making money (or at least that is mine) that it is pretty tough to tilt knowing that u r in fact doing things that are losing u lots of money and hurting u. so i just try to remind myself that i am doin this to make money and tilting will b worse then just stoping if need be. takin a chill pill and nut pedaling for the next 10 mins is also good and lets u refocus.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the old Jman argument (or at least I think it was Jman, at least one of the sng greats of yesteryear, and yes he is now also a cash legend, but this was in the 47outs period while he still 'only' played 5/10)

He had a hard time tilting in sngs, because he had worked out all the math and it is hard to push, when you know it it -EV.

But ... things are unclear in cash ... you can play lag or tag .. and there are rumours that you should protect yourself by increasing bluffing and all other stuff.

So all in all, it is harder to discern is you are making a mistake (unlike pushbotting) and this is why tilting like a cow can be so common in cash (which was Jmans observation, he almost never tilted in sngs, but had issues in cash)

[/ QUOTE ]yea i remember that too. not sure if it was jman but sounds like sumtin he would say. but i agree with wut u r sayin. i was mainly talking about like open shoving preflop and like putting my whole roll on the line at a 5/10 game or sumtin that i clearly know is -EV and retarted. the minor tilts are not that bad imo and will not b that -EV if u r thinkin logically and not being retarted. u might b slightly biased towards a play that u might normally get away from or sumtin but nothing that will kill a roll or n e thing substancial.

i think these minor ones happen like every session whether it is from winning every hand and thus callin to much or bluff too much because everything else has worked or the oposite when u r getting cr on the flop all day and then 3 bet all in with a flush draw against a calling station. those arent that bad and u prolly will still have reasonable equity versus said villian even when [censored] doesnt work out thus i dont think it is that big of a deal as long as it isnt a habbit or n e thing weird