Two pair on a draw heavy board
 

Villian is relatively unknown. Given that so many people go hyper-spaz in position with flush draws, and I can easily fold to a turn three-bet, is this line reasonable?

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

Holy god why would you do this. Wrong HH, btw? You just have one pair.

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

uh, no. If people go hyperspazzy with flush draws then why would you take a line that pumps a ton of money in and then folds before the flush comes in? I'm not saying it was a bad fold to the 3-b, just that you didn't have anywhere near the equity to jam the turn.

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

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Holy god why would you do this. Wrong HH, btw? You just have one pair.

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8s and 2s is two pair.

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

just call down from the flop raise. Its BvB. He could have anything, but people rarely take free cards.

your line is pretty awful. You created a huge pot, with a hand that could be huge, in a situation where villain might spazz and bluff, and then you folded.

I b/c the flop, c/c the turn, and c/c most rivers sometimes even the 4th diamond depending on villain.

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

"I can easily fold to a turn three-bet"

you have 4 outs vs. flushes LOL getting NINE POINT FIVE TO ONE.

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

At first I thought that calling down from the flop raise was a little weak, but I'm starting to think thats a good play here. As pizzle said, if villain raised just a flush draw on the flop he's almost never taking a free card on the turn, and he'll probably bet the river UI when checked to try to fold out other flush draws. If I took this line I would get to showdown no matter what the board looked like by the river.

My first instinct was to threebet the flop like you did and just check/call the turn and river after he caps. I like this line too, but I'm not sure what to do if a diamond falls on the turn or river.

So I like bet/call, check/call, check/call as well.

Re: Two pair on a draw heavy board
 

I would call the flop raise and not put in any more raises unless I improved. This is a small pot. You want to encourage people to bluff and it really doesn't matter if he takes a free card.

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

Sorry Brass. But this hand is terrible.

You are bloating the pot and then you fold getting decent odds + implied to peel for your boat outs

If I bet the flop I just call a raise. If I want to jam my hand more I will then look to raise a non diamond turn. Not sure I will ever do that tho

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

b/c flop and c/c to showdown. If villain raises flop, do you honestly think he'll fold a flush draw to you?

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

Yea, I now feel like a turdburglar for posting this one. Mistake... accident... tit... I'm sorry for having wasted your time, dudes. This is horrid.

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

wow, thats a lot of bets

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

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wow, thats a lot of bets

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Yea, it could have something to do with why I ran 35 wtsd/60.8 won at sd/43 won when saw flop over 600 hands, and STILL lost $126.

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

I think you still lost because in big pots you spewed in bad spots this being one of them. I bet if you look at big pots you lost, you showed to much aggression in marginal spots.

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

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I think you still lost because in big pots you spewed in bad spots this being one of them. I bet if you look at big pots you lost, you showed to much aggression in marginal spots.

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You are correct. Need to work on that.

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

"Given that so many people go hyper-spaz in position with flush draws, and I can easily fold to a turn three-bet"

You see the contradiction here right?

srry don't mean to rub it in

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

To quote Roy Munson ^, I usually close my laptop after this [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Top two pair on a draw heavy board
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Given that so many people go hyper-spaz in position with flush draws, and I can easily fold to a turn three-bet"

You see the contradiction here right?

srry don't mean to rub it in

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have clarified that I meant "on the flop". Villians generally don't keep going ballistic with a flush draw on the turn (right?!). Still, given that I clearly had outs to the boat (playing and posting hung over is dumb), my turn fold is horrendous. I'll never live this hand down, will I? Haha.

Re: Two pair on a draw heavy board
 

I certainly doesn´t like the turn fold.But I think the biggest mistake is to checkraise turn getting yourself into bloating a pot with a hand that really doesn´t warrant it IMO.He is liking his hand on flop enough to cap it.If you promptly want to put in more bets then donk turn
The turn fold is not a huge mistake EV-wise because sometimes you are drawing to 2 or 3 outs.But metagame wise it is a disaster.