nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

no real reads on either villain

is this spew w/ JJ? I didn't think mp2 had QQ-AA after he called my 3bet, and he may fold QQ if he did, and i would hope he'd fold AK. Button is short so I'm happy to commit to a pot with him, but i dont really want to have mp2 in there as well.

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

CO: $100.35
BTN: $28.85
SB: $63.40
Hero (BB): $81.70
UTG: $107.30
UTG+1: $100
UTG+2: $18.50
MP1: $140.30
MP2: $116.25

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG calls $1, 3 folds, <font color="red">MP2 raises to $4</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $4, SB folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $16</font>, UTG folds, MP2 calls $12, <font color="red">BTN raises to $28.85 and is All-In</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $81.70 and is All-In</font>, MP2.... (no results)

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

Next time I would just call BTN's reraise allin. Also depends on Mp2's stats.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

meh. I probably play it the same way readless. We are definitely well ahead of BTN's range here and unless MP2 is an absolute rock were probably flipping at worst with them as well. So just shove it in and embrace the variance

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

I would play it same way.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

Maybe I am in the minority here, but I dont see this as a great move, At best your hoping button and MP1 are counterfeiting each other, but you probably behind at least one of these opponents. And remember 40% of the time and overcard will flop, which will fit right into there ranges.

Just not a fan of this, but I would love to hear more opinions....

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

i like this all the way around. nh

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

I usually don't 3-bet this preflop. I prefer to flat call and play for set value. I just don't like building big pots out of position.

But I can see the merits of 3-betting, so maybe I'm wrong.

As played, I think your decision to push was correct.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

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I would play it same way....sometimes

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Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

Yeah I don't mind this, sometimes, especially against unknowns I tend to flat call a little more pre-flop. I prefer to at least know a little about my opponent before i'm 3-betting jacks out of position.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

Meh. Shove = bluff here and it's a dry sidepot. Not every Villain would four bet you with Aces or Kings. I wouldn't. But you might have enough FE against AK and Queens to make this bluff profitable. Anybody feel like running the math here. Idk what range to give BTN though.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I usually don't 3-bet this preflop. I prefer to flat call and play for set value. I just don't like building big pots out of position.

But I can see the merits of 3-betting, so maybe I'm wrong.

As played, I think your decision to push was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't put in 1/3 of your stack and play for set value. And shoving eliminates the problem of being out of position.

I shove here too and know that I'm looking at a high variance play if MP2 calls me.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Next time I would just call BTN's reraise allin

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I didn't want to call the btn AI because then MP2 would definitely be calling, possibly shoving. If he shoves I might feel committed enough to have to put the rest of my chips in, knowing im behind [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
If he calls then....

[ QUOTE ]
40% of the time an overcard will flop, which will fit right into there ranges.

[/ QUOTE ]

.... and i'll have to play the flop with him out of position, and i really don't want to have to c/f. I really dont want to do that with a third of my stack in PF.

As for ranges, i think btn is AQ+, 99-QQ. i think MP2's range here is AK and TT-AA. Pokerstove gives me 28% equity against those ranges... Remove AA and KK from mp2's range and that goes up to 34%.
Any1 else got a more likely range for each player? its hard with no reads, i dont know if they are spewy or not.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

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As for ranges, i think btn is AQ+, 99-QQ. i think MP2's range here is AK and TT-AA

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Your ranges are way to tight here. I see crap like this all the time. Button figures it's time to Gambool. He shows up with a hand like AA or KK here about 1 time in 20.

I'd give the button any Pocket Pair, A8+ K10s + QJs maybe slightly tighter but not by much.

You can't give MP2 such a tight range unless you have stats on him that you never posted. I run at 14/11 and in the Hijack against a limper I am raising AA-66 here and 87s+ 810+ maybe a little tighter or looser depending on the cutoff and button, if I am off a little it's not by much.

Calling sucks, Mp2 isn't folding AK or QQ here when it's $12 to him in a $70 pot. I shove, enbrace the variance and hope to fold out AK or a hand like QQ.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I usually don't 3-bet this preflop. I prefer to flat call and play for set value. I just don't like building big pots out of position.

But I can see the merits of 3-betting, so maybe I'm wrong.

As played, I think your decision to push was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't put in 1/3 of your stack and play for set value. And shoving eliminates the problem of being out of position.

I shove here too and know that I'm looking at a high variance play if MP2 calls me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not talking about putting 1/3 of the stack in. I'm talking about just flat calling the initial $4 raise instead of re-raising to $16.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

I like it.

(the shove)

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

I never noticed that MP2 flat called the 3 bet, So his range will be much tighter then waht I said in my earlier post

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I usually don't 3-bet this preflop. I prefer to flat call and play for set value. I just don't like building big pots out of position.

But I can see the merits of 3-betting, so maybe I'm wrong.

As played, I think your decision to push was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't put in 1/3 of your stack and play for set value. And shoving eliminates the problem of being out of position.

I shove here too and know that I'm looking at a high variance play if MP2 calls me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not talking about putting 1/3 of the stack in. I'm talking about just flat calling the initial $4 raise instead of re-raising to $16.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, apologies - I misunderstood you. I will sometimes take this line too, especially if I'm up against multiple full stacked players and I'm not sure that the original raiser will fold to a big re-raise from the blinds.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I usually don't 3-bet this preflop. I prefer to flat call and play for set value. I just don't like building big pots out of position.

But I can see the merits of 3-betting, so maybe I'm wrong.

As played, I think your decision to push was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't put in 1/3 of your stack and play for set value. And shoving eliminates the problem of being out of position.

I shove here too and know that I'm looking at a high variance play if MP2 calls me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not talking about putting 1/3 of the stack in. I'm talking about just flat calling the initial $4 raise instead of re-raising to $16.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, apologies - I misunderstood you. I will sometimes take this line too, especially if I'm up against multiple full stacked players and I'm not sure that the original raiser will fold to a big re-raise from the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont always 3bet w/ JJ, i play it both ways, but on this occasion i was in the blinds against 2 unknowns so i wanted to play heads up.... then things started getting wild

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

lol, whenever there's a sidepot, all the posters have mental detenoations.

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

I would call and play for set value b/c you're oop, but if you're going to raise I would raise more, maybe $20...

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

is being oop not also a good reason to thin the field and play HU? I'm not suggesting it is an absolute or anything....

Re: nl100 JJ in BB, is this spew?
 

[ QUOTE ]
is being oop not also a good reason to thin the field and play HU? I'm not suggesting it is an absolute or anything....

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yes, but there has been raise and cold call in front of you, leaving you oop post flop. You only have JJ so keep it cheap in this situation, OOP. If everyone limped than I would raise, and if I was on the Btn I would raise, but not here in the blind.