Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes

This is one of our allies in the Middle East? Another black eye for Islam as well?

A court in the ultra-conservative kingdom of Saudi Arabia is punishing a female victim of gang rape with 200 lashes and six months in jail, a newspaper reported on Thursday.
The 19-year-old woman -- whose six armed attackers have been sentenced to jail terms -- was initially ordered to undergo 90 lashes for "being in the car of an unrelated male at the time of the rape," the Arab News reported.

But in a new verdict issued after Saudi Arabia's Higher Judicial Council ordered a retrial, the court in the eastern town of Al-Qatif more than doubled the number of lashes to 200.

A court source told the English-language Arab News that the judges had decided to punish the woman further for "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media."

Saudi Arabia enforces a strict Islamic doctrine known as Wahhabism and forbids unrelated men and women from associating with each other, bans women from driving and forces them to cover head-to-toe in public.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

This world is seriously a messed up place. I don't know how people can sleep at night when they hand out these types of sentences.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

Don't we have wonderful allies?

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

It's Canada's fault.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

Personally, I think the title of this thread is completely misleading. It implies that she is getting 200 lashes for being a victim. She is not. She is getting some of those lashes for BREAKING THE LAW. She then compounded these problems by trying to get the media to affect the judicial process.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think the title of this thread is completely misleading. It implies that she is getting 200 lashes for being a victim. She is not. She is getting some of those lashes for being in the car of an unrelated male. She then compounded these problems by trying to get the media to affect the judicial process.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Clearly, bitch had it coming.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

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It's Canada's fault.

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F*ck you.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think the title of this thread is completely misleading. It implies that she is getting 200 lashes for being a victim. She is not. She is getting some of those lashes for being in the car of an unrelated male. She then compounded these problems by trying to get the media to affect the judicial process.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Clearly, bitch had it coming.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it was either

a) ignorance of the law, which is never an excuse.

b) flouting the law.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think the title of this thread is completely misleading. It implies that she is getting 200 lashes for being a victim. She is not. She is getting some of those lashes for BREAKING THE LAW. She then compounded these problems by trying to get the media to affect the judicial process.

[/ QUOTE ]

Breaking the law of being in the car of an unrelated male? Then going to the media to affect that judicial process where someone gets 90 lashes for doing that? Then getting an extra 110 lashes for bringing attention to this? I hope you're joking about this but probably not.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think the title of this thread is completely misleading. It implies that she is getting 200 lashes for being a victim. She is not. She is getting some of those lashes for BREAKING THE LAW. She then compounded these problems by trying to get the media to affect the judicial process.

[/ QUOTE ]

It completely tilts me when people say this. Why shouldn't I get any more upset because its a stupid law? The law isn't supposed to be a replacement or guide for our moral intuition - in a perfect world, it would be completely the opposite.

The Saudi regime in general, tilts me. They are a cabal of rich families bribing their populace into a standard of living they can only afford because of oil, and thus enforce extreme religious preferences because of those ignorant people. And they make dumb purchases and investments because they aren't responsible for creating the wealth that was handed to them. Oil is really a curse, I wouldn't wish it upon any developing country.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

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Another black eye for Islam as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

The humane thing to do would have been to waterboard her. I guess these Muslims are just too barbaric.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think the title of this thread is completely misleading. It implies that she is getting 200 lashes for being a victim. She is not. She is getting some of those lashes for being in the car of an unrelated male. She then compounded these problems by trying to get the media to affect the judicial process.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Clearly, bitch had it coming.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it was either

a) Being in the car of an unrelated male.

b) Being in the car of an unrelated male.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I'm agreeing with you. Bitch was asking for it.

Should really stone her to death imo.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

moral relativism ftw.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
moral relativism ftw.

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Beat me to it. I was going to say "But hey, its all relative, right?"

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]

So it was either

a) ignorance of the law, which is never an excuse.

b) flouting the law.


[/ QUOTE ]

Um, why is "ignorance of the law" not an excuse? I am a Native American living in some reservation somehwere. The government, appealing to some narrow, prudish interest group bans peyote. This doesn't square with my religion, or even my expectations of proper law. I don't have a valid excuse in protesting when the government comes to deal with me in some form or another?

I actually think it is morally "criminal" for example for our tax code to be so complicated that ordinary filers don't know how NOT to be in violation of those laws. A perfect example of moral ignorance.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

I don't understand what appeal Islam has to women. Being born into those customs obviously has an effect, but I don't understand why any woman would ever voluntarily apply such a degrading moral system upon themselves.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another black eye for Islam as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

The humane thing to do would have been to waterboard her. I guess these Muslims are just too barbaric.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this an attempt to equivocate US actions of water-boarding with Saudi Actions in the story?

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

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I don't understand what appeal Islam has to women. Being born into those customs obviously has an effect, but I don't understand why any woman would ever voluntarily apply such a degrading moral system upon themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

see if you can find a stat of how many women who were not raised in an islamic family do a conversion to radical forms of islam.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another black eye for Islam as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

The humane thing to do would have been to waterboard her. I guess these Muslims are just too barbaric.

[/ QUOTE ]

Moronic, even from you.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another black eye for Islam as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

The humane thing to do would have been to waterboard her. I guess these Muslims are just too barbaric.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this an attempt to equivocate US actions of water-boarding with Saudi Actions in the story?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

I agree with Noahxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it.

Do I like the law? Do I think it's a good law? Obviously no.

If she doesn't like it, she should come to America.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another black eye for Islam as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

The humane thing to do would have been to waterboard her. I guess these Muslims are just too barbaric.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this an attempt to equivocate US actions of water-boarding with Saudi Actions in the story?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a sarcastic attempt to discern from adios why the Saudi actions in the story are "a black eye for Islam". When governments run by Muslims do bad things to people, it's a black eye for the religion. When the American government does bad things to people, is it a condemnation of Christianity? Most of the leaders in our government are Christian.

Okay, so the expected right-wing bigot response here is: "zomg but wait, these laws are borne out of Wahhabism; American rule of law isn't dictated by Biblical code -- zomg the inhumanity of Islam!!!!!"

But again, it's nothing but standard demagoguery: find extremist elements of said religion, find when they do a bad thing, say bad thing is black eye on whole religion. Or instead of outright saying it, just wonder aloud and see if the [censored] sticks. "Black eye for Wahhabism" or "black eye for Saudi government" is one thing and obviously true, "black eye for Islam" is just standard right-wing baiting.

Cue adios backtracking, John Killduff/MMMMMM two-thousand word essays on the evils of Islam.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

I WAS JOKING FWIW.

I forgot that I was posting in a forum where people actually believe things like that.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

The title of the thread is not misleading at all. She was the victim of a gang rape. Had she not been raped, she would not have been "caught" being in the car of a non-related male. It as precisely the gang rape that has cauased her to be punished.

Anyway, it's not the fact that she broke the law that is upsetting. It's the fact that our ally has such a law on its books.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Noahxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it.

Do I like the law? Do I think it's a good law? Obviously no.

If she doesn't like it, she should come to America.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can make the original punishment seem other than barbaric, but giving her a higher sentence on retrial is tyranny pure and simple.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

I won't equivocate: your string of posts in this thread are your best ever. You moral relativist.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

Yeah, our two big allies in the Middle East are the authoritarian monarchy in Saudi Arabia, and a military dictator who overthrew a democratically elected leader in Pakistan.

Isn't our policy to be spreading democracy in the region? Just wondering.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

Whatever happened to the president's plan to get us less dependent on oil?

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another black eye for Islam as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

The humane thing to do would have been to waterboard her. I guess these Muslims are just too barbaric.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this an attempt to equivocate US actions of water-boarding with Saudi Actions in the story?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a sarcastic attempt to discern from adios why the Saudi actions in the story are "a black eye for Islam". When governments run by Muslims do bad things to people, it's a black eye for the religion. When the American government does bad things to people, is it a condemnation of Christianity? Most of the leaders in our government are Christian.

Okay, so the expected right-wing bigot response here is: "zomg but wait, these laws are borne out of Wahhabism; American rule of law isn't dictated by Biblical code -- zomg the inhumanity of Islam!!!!!"

But again, it's nothing but standard demagoguery: find extremist elements of said religion, find when they do a bad thing, say bad thing is black eye on whole religion. Or instead of outright saying it, just wonder aloud and see if the [censored] sticks.

Cue adios backtracking, John Killduff/MMMMMM two-thousand word essays on the evils of Islam.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a sizable difference between the two situations. First, and annoyingly, there's an obvious distinction between scope - whatever you think the US may have perpetrated in the War on Terror (is it yet a factual?) and the repeated brutality we see in the Saudi Kingdom.

But the real question should be the idea of "controlling for" in statistics. Across different types of governments, Muslim' countries tend to have this systematic application of brutal laws and policies. Across different types of governments for Christian nations, you don't see the same trend. Brutality seems independent of Christianity, while positively correlated to Muslim ones. Of course we could not be using other variables, like poverty, development, so on.

But it does suggest a causative link.

Also, which way is the underlying society applying pressure? In America, tentatively it's the government RESISTING calls by a minority its populace to enforce religious norms. In Saudi Arabia its the government ENFORCING calls by its populace (and not a minority of it, either) to enforce those religious norms.

It's not all equal.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
The title of the thread is not misleading at all. She was the victim of a gang rape. Had she not been raped, she would not have been "caught" being in the car of a non-related male. It as precisely the gang rape that has cauased her to be punished.

[/ QUOTE ]

that would be like me getting shot in a drive-by while robbing someone. sure, i was the victim of a shooting, and it led to my arrest on the robbery, but i was still guilty of the robbery.

(also see my last post)

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

hey in america lots of guys are in jail, some for a long time, because they picked up the phone and called their exwife/gf and said, hey, what is going on, a police officer just served me with a restraining order against you ...

what's the difference really?

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another black eye for Islam as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

The humane thing to do would have been to waterboard her. I guess these Muslims are just too barbaric.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this an attempt to equivocate US actions of water-boarding with Saudi Actions in the story?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. Thought 'equate' and typed extra letters and stuff.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

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That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slave from the 1840s: Man slavery sucks, we need to get rid of it.

Taso: Yeah, you should tell your congressmen to outlaw it

Slave: I don't have a congressman, slaves can't vote

Taso: Damn, that sucks, you should totally write a letter to a newspaper talking about how [censored] slavery is

Slave: Umm, dude, my master forbids us to read and write, and beats us if we try to learn.

Taso: Damn that really sucks, you should move somewhere that slavery isn't allowed.

Slave: To do that I would have to break the law, slaves aren't allowed to run away + the closest places without slavery have fugitive slave laws where the citizens there are required to return us.

Taso: Damn, that sucks, well keep on keeping on man, just don't break these unjust laws, try working within the system that set up these laws and one day, hopefully your grandchildren won't be slaves.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it.

[/ QUOTE ]




Slave from the 1840s: Man slavery sucks, we need to get rid of it.

Taso: Yeah, you should tell your congressmen to outlaw it

Slave: I don't have a congressman, slaves can't vote

Taso: Damn, that sucks, you should totally write a letter to a newspaper talking about how [censored] slavery is

Slave: Umm, dude, my master forbids us to read and write, and beats us if we try to learn.

Taso: Damn that really sucks, you should move somewhere that slavery isn't allowed.

Slave: To do that I would have to break the law, slaves aren't allowed to run away + the closest places without slavery have fugitive slave laws where the citizens there are required to return us.

Taso: Damn, that sucks, well keep on keeping on man, just don't break these unjust laws, try working within the system that set up these laws and one day, hopefully your grandchildren won't be slaves.

[/ QUOTE ]

But its still all relative. I mean, a lot of people were perfectly ok with slavery.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Noahxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it.

Do I like the law? Do I think it's a good law? Obviously no.

If she doesn't like it, she should come to America.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the insidious part of this law, how are you going to get to an airport if you can't own a car or ride in a car of a man who is unrelated to you? That severly limits your ability to "get away." Especially when your country is a giant desert.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]

But its still all relative. I mean, a lot of people were perfectly ok with slavery.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you see moral relativism as a slippery slope to sadism, you merely reveal yourself as scum. Do you see why?

God does nobody read their Nietzsche these days.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

claiming moral and cultural relativism is just a cop out. relativism should be used to create empathy not apathy. we all understand why the Saudi's have these laws, but according to people like John Lock every human being is born with innate rights and the government is supposed to protect those rights not give them or take them.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it.

[/ QUOTE ]




Slave from the 1840s: Man slavery sucks, we need to get rid of it.

Taso: Yeah, you should tell your congressmen to outlaw it

Slave: I don't have a congressman, slaves can't vote

Taso: Damn, that sucks, you should totally write a letter to a newspaper talking about how [censored] slavery is

Slave: Umm, dude, my master forbids us to read and write, and beats us if we try to learn.

Taso: Damn that really sucks, you should move somewhere that slavery isn't allowed.

Slave: To do that I would have to break the law, slaves aren't allowed to run away + the closest places without slavery have fugitive slave laws where the citizens there are required to return us.

Taso: Damn, that sucks, well keep on keeping on man, just don't break these unjust laws, try working within the system that set up these laws and one day, hopefully your grandchildren won't be slaves.

[/ QUOTE ]

But its still all relative. I mean, a lot of people were perfectly ok with slavery.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. Good points. I wonder how slavery ended. Did it end by the slaves breaking the law and running away? Or did it end with a political movement, and an amendment to the constitution. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Next time you want to make a post that proves a point of mine, or maybe is completly irrelivant, make it shorter, please.

Edited: My bad.

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

thanks for stretching out the thread and making it unreadable ass

Re: Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But its still all relative. I mean, a lot of people were perfectly ok with slavery.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you see moral relativism as a slippery slope to sadism, you merely reveal yourself as scum. Do you see why?

God does nobody read their Nietzsche these days.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about you try not being such a condescending [censored] and elaborate? And I'll freely admit that its been a while since I read Nietzche, so feel free to enlighten me, I'm all ears. Maybe you can help me not be scum.