50/100 interesting river decision
 

foxwoods 50/100.. game is great obviously.

I have been playing relatively tight this session and havent won any monsters at showdown, mostly standard spots but with a strong image.

EP raises, CO calls, SB calls, i call BB w/ AcQs, (game is playing generally passive and i did not feel raising would really accomplish anything here considering my position and their relatively horrible post flop decision making.)

Flop KJ9

checked around

turn T

sb bets, i call, EP calls, CO calls rest fold

river K

sb bets, i call, ep folds, co calls


the CO in this hand is tommy.. a young foxwoods/AC reg and we were discussing the river and turn play for a little bit and i thought it was a pretty interesting spot.

just wondering if theres enough value to calling in both spots hoping to get overcalls behind on the turn.


the river play is also interesting b/c for my plan on the turn to work, i have to call again here. also, does the CO call 2 bets cold w/ just a Q enough to make a raise profitable? or is just calling gaining me extra value from hands he may fold for two bets?

for those of you whom know tommy he is very capable of laying down a hand and has a pretty decent hand reading ability when he is playing good, and this session he was very un-tilty and playing reasonably well.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

I'm confused, how many people see the flop? I think there's 4 but on the turn you say 1 person bets, 3 call, rest fold??

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

Raise the turn like 5000000000000% of the time. You have the absolute nuts and you'll get a Q to coldcall and possibly 3bet the turn and Tommy coldcalled PF which means he has 8 high or worse.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

I raise the turn hoping that just a Q will put in many many bets.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

Since you didn't raise preflop, pretty hard for any of them to put you on A-Q. Thus a Q would be unlikely to fold for more than one bet fearing you have A-Q.

I don't quite understand why you have to call again on the river for your turn plan to work. Your turn plan already worked in that you got two calls behind.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

FPS. Raise the turn, they'll still call.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

cc on turn is more of an image thing. Prolly rasing in this situation is gonna be the line more than 90% of the time. CC the river too is a little skeptical I think u put in 3bets on the river with AQ so why not extract some value from a queen or maybe even AK if game is playing as usual with blind rich men
LOL
ship it anyway
peace

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn like 5000000000000% of the time. You have the absolute nuts and you'll get a Q to coldcall and possibly 3bet the turn and Tommy coldcalled PF which means he has 8 high or worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
foxwoods 50/100.. game is great obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

when was this game going? i.e. what day was this from?

[ QUOTE ]


I have been playing relatively tight this session and havent won any monsters at showdown, mostly standard spots but with a strong image.

EP raises, CO calls, SB calls, i call BB w/ AcQs, (game is playing generally passive and i did not feel raising would really accomplish anything here considering my position and their relatively horrible post flop decision making.)

Flop KJ9

checked around

turn T

sb bets, i call, EP calls, CO calls rest fold

river K

sb bets, i call, ep folds, co calls


the CO in this hand is tommy.. a young foxwoods/AC reg and we were discussing the river and turn play for a little bit and i thought it was a pretty interesting spot.

just wondering if theres enough value to calling in both spots hoping to get overcalls behind on the turn.


the river play is also interesting b/c for my plan on the turn to work, i have to call again here. also, does the CO call 2 bets cold w/ just a Q enough to make a raise profitable? or is just calling gaining me extra value from hands he may fold for two bets?

for those of you whom know tommy he is very capable of laying down a hand and has a pretty decent hand reading ability when he is playing good, and this session he was very un-tilty and playing reasonably well.

[/ QUOTE ]

my experience w/ tommy is that if anything he is a bit too passive (bad UTG raised, 1 cold caller, i 3bet TT on the button he called QQ in the sb), but other than that a great player. i've never seen him tilt of get out of line, though to be fair my sample size w/ him is pretty small.

onto the hand: i think that if the turn was a T and there was instead of a 9 an 8 (KJ8 T) then i'd like your play more.

but given that there is a straight now on board, you are in a dream situation and imo at the time of the turn call i would expect anybody w/ a queen to call you down.

who was the sb? who was EP?

what would tommy simply call and then check the flop with and then simply call turn and river? i would not be surprised if he showed up here w/ QQ. i don't think he calls that river w/ less than a straight, and if sb is bad, i don't see how he can put you on AQ and fold for 2 bets if you raise a bad playing sb.

Barron

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

I see Ears get out of line often, maybe it's just a random thing.

Some fun hands from Ears:

50
Tommy limps UTG everyone folds to SB who raises, BB folds Tommy 3bets SB calls
843r SB checkcalls
Turn J SB C/R
River 4 Tommy raises, SB calls
SB AJs
Tommy T9o

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
my experience w/ tommy is that if anything he is a bit too passive (bad UTG raised, 1 cold caller, i 3bet TT on the button he called QQ in the sb), but other than that a great player. i've never seen him tilt of get out of line, though to be fair my sample size w/ him is pretty small.


[/ QUOTE ]

You either are thinking of the wrong Tommy or maybe only played 5 hands with him. He can get aggro and can tilt hard.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my experience w/ tommy is that if anything he is a bit too passive (bad UTG raised, 1 cold caller, i 3bet TT on the button he called QQ in the sb), but other than that a great player. i've never seen him tilt of get out of line, though to be fair my sample size w/ him is pretty small.


[/ QUOTE ]

You either are thinking of the wrong Tommy or maybe only played 5 hands with him. He can get aggro and can tilt hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

tommy: lanky, maybe 5'8-5'10, friends w/ josh et.al.

i've played literally 2 times w/ him and never once saw him either a) get out of line, or b) get max value (i.e. since he was playing weak tight.

in fact, i played a hand badly against him specifically b/c i thought he was weak tight...it was the TT hand in fact.

some limper, some raise i 3 bet he cold calls QQ in the sb. all call.

flop 973 two spades i have Ts. checked to me i bet tommy c'r fold to me i think he has either a flush draw, a set here (i.e. AKs/AQsnot as likely or 99/77/not likely 33), or TT/88/77.

so instead of 3 betting or simply calling down, or calling the flop and turn and folding river, i decide to call and raise the turn and fold to a 3 bet.

turn falls and he bets and i raise and he 3bets and i almost muck....but then i look at the freaking turn card:

Jx...meaning i pretty much have 6 outs here and can't fold.

so i call despite knowing that it is physically impossible to ever hit the card you need when you make a mistake like that...just karma or some other metaphysical force...

he checks the river and i check behind and he says 1 pair, queens, i say "good" and muck.

Barron

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
I raise the turn hoping that just a Q will put in many many bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would do the same

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

or u can play like sammy farha and go all in

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

barron.. tommy tilts VERY hard, and plays about as spazzy as possible while he is. but he plays very good when he's not and VB's very well.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

oh
my
god
raise
the
[censored]
turn
nothing
can
call
one
bet
but
hands
that
can
may
very
well
call
two.
how
is
this
not
obvious?

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

I don't know about raising the turn but I would definalty raise for value on the river? I don't see what would be so wrong with this unless you are afraid of a boat.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

Well there you go.

[x] high stakes is the new small stakes

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well there you go.

[x] high stakes is the new small stakes

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, SS and I finally agree. And to think, it had to be in high stakes.

Side note: has this game been going often? I might be making an appearance this saturday Saturday SATURDAY!

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well there you go.

[x] high stakes is the new small stakes

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, SS and I finally agree. And to think, it had to be in high stakes.

Side note: has this game been going often? I might be making an appearance this saturday Saturday SATURDAY!

[/ QUOTE ]

I started a 50 list Saturday 11Pm and played the 20 till sunday 6pm

My intials sat on the lists all by thier lonesome all 19 hours.

Tournies over so isn't the 50 running [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

Hahahaha. Tommy, he is a pretty decent tourney/cash game player, but he is a lagtard spew monkey when he loses.

As for the hand:

I like the turn call. Yes a naked Q will most likely call 2 bets here, but I have seen a lot of people at Foxwoods fold open ender's on the turn b/c they "never ever ever hit" (obviously depends on the table) and some rivers are going to suck a lot. There is value in the turn raise, I just like the call fwiw, plus you might be able to pull a raise if one of the people behind you decides to raise 2p or a set~

Why not raise the river and puke/call when you get 3 bet?

If anyone has a K behind you they are not folding ever for 2 bets. Also, if its like the Foxwoods I know, a lot of people will be calling the turn w/ a naked Q and folding to the river, or fold there 2pair hands like JT that just got counterfeited. I think calling here sucks. So pretty much raise the river IMO.

So the way I look at it is, if 1 of the 2 players behind you has a K you get 2 bets + 1 more from Tommy. If everyone folds then Tommy pretty much has to call you, sending him on monkey tilt where he starts to raise UTG w/ hands like 25s and 34o. Either way a victory.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

You misread the board and there's no way a K would check that flop ever.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

Ya misread it. Regardless raise river.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

not raising the turn at Foxwoods is crazy. don't outthink yourself Bill.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
barron.. tommy tilts VERY hard, and plays about as spazzy as possible while he is. but he plays very good when he's not and VB's very well.

[/ QUOTE ]

i've been informed that there are many many tommies.

the tommy i'm thinking of and who that hand above was against is known as "tommy ears"

are we speaking of the same tommy?

thanks,
Barron

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

Yes you are thinking of the same tommy.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes you are thinking of the same tommy.

[/ QUOTE ]

well then it must be that my sample size is way skewed and/or he just played un-typically against me and his other friends.

i have just never seen him tilt. but then again i haven't seen him take a huge beat since he appeared to be playing slightly less than typically aggressive and definitely tighter than me (i play probably slightly tighter than your typical 2p2 20/40 player though i'm not sure). those could all be contributing factors though since he may have simply not gotten cards and his good ones held up / won w/o showdown so he never got beat in a big pot, never tilted, and never went "nutso" lol.

either way i like the guy. i've found the FW game to be unusally friendly. folks like josh, bob c, tommy ears, jay, and fish like sergio etc. make the game fun. especially josh.

have i met you before??

Barron

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
either way i like the guy. i've found the FW game to be unusally friendly. folks like josh, bob c, tommy ears, jay, and fish like sergio etc. make the game fun. especially josh.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a lot of time at the table with them and I consider many of those guys friends even though I don't see them much anymore. (Machine Gun) Tommy (ears) can play really well when he wants, but can get over aggro when he's running good and tilty when he's running bad. He'll tell you the stories of the multiple times when he's "dusted off a couple of racks in 1/2 hour" The key to playing against him is realizing which Tommy he currently is.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

I think we played together briefly, I am friends with Bobby and Bk and I'll introduce myself next time I see you down there.

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think we played together briefly, I am friends with Bobby and Bk and I'll introduce myself next time I see you down there.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're not brett are you?

Re: 50/100 interesting river decision
 

No Dave same age