Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

Ok this is a weird one. Villain is lady_swan, a very meh 21/16/3 reg with a flop AF of 5. I had been playing a few more hands than normal, around 25/21, cos there was a huge fish to the right of me who i was deep with, but nothing too out of line postflop.

Some thoughts -

In hindsight i hate my flop 3bet with these stacks (unles i fire the turn) since she's not folding any draw, but i guess it's fine with around 150-200bb stacks? She insta-called my flop 3-bet fwiw, which makes me think i should have bet turn turn...

Is she 4-betting 55/77 on the flop this deep, do you fire turn smallish for like $400 to get her off her draw? Am i retarded for wanting to call this river? I kinda felt she had diamonds or 75s alot here...ok i'm done, go!

Edit - forgot something. About 10 mins previous i got ai on the flop with a huge draw in 3bet pot vs the fish for a 400bb pot, so i guess this might make him more inclined to 4bet sets on the flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

CO ($660)
Button ($613)
SB ($1620.45)
BB ($479.55)
UTG ($690)
Hero ($2556.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $24</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls $21, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($54) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $38</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $120</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $340</font>, SB calls $220.

Turn: ($734) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($734) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $500</font>, Hero?

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

Meh, you just split vs Axdd and lose vs Kxdd. Fold river.

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Meh, you just split vs Axdd and lose vs Kxdd. Fold river.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's def not good enough to value bet K-Xdd fwiw

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

i literally can't put her on a hand. it only makes sense if she plays her big draws uber weak and OOP and transparently... and from my experience she's not that bad. 98d makes sense but i dunno y she wouldnt raise flop again that flop is as good as it gets for her.

the only hand i can think of then is QQ. i agree 55/77 4bet flop but QQ might feel she has the deck so killed that she can't put in another raise.

I don't think 75s is in her range as that would 4bet flop since it's so vulnerable.

so QQ or 98d for me, learning towards QQ

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

actually the more i think bout it the more likely i think it's QQ. when ppl r so deep they don't want to raise JJ/QQ out of position as much since they're just asking to be called and put into a bad spot postflop whether it comes Ahigh or not. Swanny might have decided to get tricky and turn it into a set mine/concealed overpair.

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think 75s is in her range as that would 4bet flop since it's so vulnerable.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think 75s plays exactly this way

[ QUOTE ]
when ppl r so deep they don't want to raise JJ/QQ out of position

[/ QUOTE ]

agree with this though

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

why would 75s not reraise again...having bottom pair is like so vulnerable and every card close to the queen as well as the queen is a bad card as are diamonds possibly, from their perspective. i'd be getting it in while i'm sure i'm still ahead if i had the 75s there

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'd be getting it in while i'm sure i'm still ahead if i had the 75s there

[/ QUOTE ]

you really wanna get bottom 2 pair in on the flop for 270bb in a single raised pot?

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Meh, you just split vs Axdd and lose vs Kxdd. Fold river.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's def not good enough to value bet K-Xdd fwiw

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, but how many FDs are you actually ahead of? If we eliminate Ad-Qd/Td/7d/5d the only fd combos you're ahead of is J9dd/98dd/86dd/64dd/43dd, so totally 5 combos of which he won't call all preflop vs a MP raise. Discounted maybe 2-3 combos.

Calling vs Axdd is obv +ev, but still the lack of FDs must have a huge impact on the ev of the call. Can't imagine calling being +ev.

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

if i'm not willing to stack off on as dry a board as this then there's no way I'd call with thr 75s in the first place. u can only really be worried about 1 hand, QQ. so yes i would get it in on this flop. I mean what if turn comes offsuit 2 do u just check/fold or something. if u think ur good now u should push flop if u dont u'd fold. I don't see why 75s would decide 'ah well maybe they got QQ/55/77 i'll just check call it down'.

PS all those 'you's' refer to swan's perspective obv

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

why no love for my thread [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

I think I just fold

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

i call

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

any more thoughts? who fires the turn here?

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

call river, i like betting 390ish on the turn, tho.

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

depends on timing and [censored] yall

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

If u think her flop call is only 75 or a draw - never sets, kq or kk (its pretty likely that she doesnt have any of these by the turn) AND that she wouldnt value bet a rivered top pair if she was chasing with kdxd then call, I think that's pretty much all there is to it, I dunno if i bet turn.

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

[ QUOTE ]
depends on timing and [censored] yall

[/ QUOTE ]

yeh i know it's dependant on game flow so hard to answer etc etc..but fwiw he snap called flop and bet river pretty quickly, within 4-5 secs

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

I dont mind your 3bet although I dont see why you make it $340, you're not folding out any more hands than if you made it like $280 and it saves money for your bluffs and doesn't change much when you actually have a big hand because of the pot size in relation to your stacks.

once she calls your 3bet i def don't fire turn. At best she is calling (i dont see why she would call 3bet/fold turn) but there is a big chance you get CRAI its just spew imo. Looks like she was going for the CRAI on the turn and when you checked behind she thought she missed a bet and donked out. From villain's point of view it looks like you have AQ or an overpair and are trying to potcontrol on the turn I don't think river bet is a missed draw very often. I also think villain can vbet KQ on river.

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

Why would we 3-bet AQ/KK/AA this deep?

Re: Sometimes i really wish party had a timebank...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont mind your 3bet although I dont see why you make it $340, you're not folding out any more hands than if you made it like $280 and it saves money for your bluffs and doesn't change much when you actually have a big hand because of the pot size in relation to your stacks.

once she calls your 3bet i def don't fire turn. At best she is calling (i dont see why she would call 3bet/fold turn) but there is a big chance you get CRAI its just spew imo. Looks like she was going for the CRAI on the turn and when you checked behind she thought she missed a bet and donked out. From villain's point of view it looks like you have AQ or an overpair and are trying to potcontrol on the turn I don't think river bet is a missed draw very often. I also think villain can vbet KQ on river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very unlikely she calls flop 3bet oop with kq, also unlikely we 3bet that flop this deep with kk, kq, or aa. And, given op's description, I dunno how much villain is thinking of hand ranges but rather - "he checks turn, hes weak and i have no sd with my busted draw - bet".