Marathon Training
 

I've entered the London marathon next year and have somehow managed to end up with about $4000 in bets which require me to run it in less the 4 hours, all of which go to the charity i'm running for.

I'm looking for somesort of workout program to make this possible. I'm 26, 14 stone and do a 20 minute run once a week at 13km an hour.

I have plenty of time to train, (i trade the equity markets) but my program has to be flexible to allow for a few days of non training due to market movement. Theres a treadmill at work, which is what i'll be using during the week.

My workout plan is based on a three run program.

1 - 5k, as quick as i can, hopefully building up to 14/15km an hour.

2 - 15k, looking to get through it, running at around 10km an hour.

3 - 10k, looking to run at the around 13km an hour.

Hopefully by christmas i'd have worked up to this and be looking to progress up to running 30k weeks for a month or two before the main event.

How does this sound, anything you'd change, would it be better to have a more rigid five month plan?

Re: Marathon Training
 

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I've entered the London marathon next year and have somehow managed to end up with about $4000 in bets which require me to run it in less the 4 hours, all of which go to the charity i'm running for.

I'm looking for somesort of workout program to make this possible. I'm 26, 14 stone and do a 20 minute run once a week at 13km an hour.

I have plenty of time to train, (i trade the equity markets) but my program has to be flexible to allow for a few days of non training due to market movement. Theres a treadmill at work, which is what i'll be using during the week.

My workout plan is based on a three run program.

1 - 5k, as quick as i can, hopefully building up to 14/15km an hour.

2 - 15k, looking to get through it, running at around 10km an hour.

3 - 10k, looking to run at the around 13km an hour.

Hopefully by christmas i'd have worked up to this and be looking to progress up to running 30k weeks for a month or two before the main event.

How does this sound, anything you'd change, would it be better to have a more rigid five month plan?

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your best bet is to train specifically for this event, since you only need to complete the marathon, a time target shouldn't realy be considered for your training (unless you want too)

first off how long is the london marathon?

I can help you formulate a good training program with that information and the amount of time you can train per week

Re: Marathon Training
 

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first off how long is the london marathon?

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Umm, isn't this sort of defined by the fact that it is a marathon?

Re: Marathon Training
 

26.5 miles.

I can make as much time as would be needed to complete it in less than 4 hours. Given my fitness levels aren't great the amount of time i can train each week will be limited.

Re: Marathon Training
 

you have time........

just do something like this:

http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/inter1.html

They say if you just stick to the long runs and can do them, you will be fine.

As for speed, this is just my opinion, but if you can do some HIIT and sprint work, it will will really get your mile pace down (im american and refuse to convert my thinking to metric b/c it makes me has a confusion)

Re: Marathon Training
 

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(im american and refuse to convert my thinking to metric b/c it makes me has a confusion)

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Just remember 1.6 and .6.

1 mile = ~1.6km
1 km = about ~.6 miles

No need to be exact. But that simple conversion is a good one to have locked away in the cranium.

Re: Marathon Training
 

To run a marathon in under 4 hours you actually have to be running for the majority of it. You are going to want to run a couple of 30k runs or at least a couple of runs in the 2.5 to 3.0 hour duration.

http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00novice.htm is a decent enough plan on relatively low milage.

Re: Marathon Training
 

There are a couple of real runners who post here, and they will hopefully chime in. My first marathon, my longest training runs were a couple of 18 milers. On race day, it is hard to explain how unpleasant mile 21-25 were. And my recovery was also unpleasant. You need to see mile 22 or 23 in your training, I think.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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first off how long is the london marathon?

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Umm, isn't this sort of defined by the fact that it is a marathon?

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uh...non-competitive marathons can vary in length. Thanks for your obviosly helpful post but

Re: Marathon Training
 

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26.5 miles.

I can make as much time as would be needed to complete it in less than 4 hours. Given my fitness levels aren't great the amount of time i can train each week will be limited.

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Well I've never trained specifically for a marathon since I normally do a lot of cardio, but theoretically the best way to train for this event would be...

1) OK you have 5 months until this event. this gives you 20 weeks to prepare - thats not a lot of time though if you keep strict with your training and incorporate some dieting advice (basically eat a lot :P) you'll be fine.
2) Before you do start make sure you have some proper running shoes - maybe visit a podiatrist if you can be bothered? They usually have reccomendations of how to improve your running posture and can tell you which shows would fit you best or even where to get custom running shoes.
3)You should train 3-4x a week. Now obviously you can't be doing full marathons every day (nor shouldnt) but every 5th week you should attempt to do the length of the marathon - too see how your progress is. You might just want to go for runs for 1-1.5 hours and try increase distance each time. Start off gradually though - maybe start off at 3x a week for 1 hour and try gradually increase time and then distance.
4) You also want to be able to "peak" for the event. The best way to peak for the event is to spend some time leading up to the event training at less intensity then what you're used too - so for a week before the marathon you may only want to run twice a week and extrapolate the time/distance as to how you'll go in the marathon. Also at week 8 and 14 you may also want to take a rest week where you train only 2x a week so to keep you from over training.

That my IMO, somebody more experienced might have a better idea.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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As for speed, this is just my opinion, but if you can do some HIIT and sprint work, it will will really get your mile pace down

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While tempo work, hill repeats, interval training, fartleks and many other types of faster and higher intensity work can be very helpful, I don't think actual sprint work has much use in marathon training. From my personal experience, all out sprint training is a direct path to injury when you're putting in a lot of miles.

FIRST training program

I think this program would be very good given the time you want to allot to this. The long runs are very very important. You're going to have to go well beyond 15km on a regular basis in your training if you want to have any shot at 4 hrs.

Re: Marathon Training
 

I just ran my first marathon so I can give some (hopefully) useful advice.

I can't stress enough about having good enough shoes. The only time I had any sort of injury was due to a pair of shoes that didn't fit as well as I thought they did. Spend a couple extra bucks and go somewhere that will look at you run and recommend something specifically for you. Once you have a pair, make sure to change them every 300-400 miles, or rotate a few pairs.

Just follow one of the linked 'beginner' training plans. Mile 21-26, like said, is absolute hell, but at the same time, be really careful about too many runs close to marathon length; they will take a lot out of you, especially if you haven't done that length before.

Don't worry about speed work, it will only lead to injury on your first marathon (unless you already have a really good base.)

Get some
body glide . Chaffing hurts.

Re: Marathon Training
 

A few more questions, with regards to eating more...I'm a reasonable amount overwieght, probably 1.5 stones which will need to come off to have a chance at 4 hours. Given i'll be running a hell of a lot more, approx how much should my daily intake be.

Secondly, all the training plans have distances, how should i include speeds into it? Having seen what people have to say about miles 21-26 i feel training toward a 3 hours 20 time would give me enough room to struggle though the last part and still keep my side of the bet.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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A few more questions, with regards to eating more...I'm a reasonable amount overwieght, probably 1.5 stones which will need to come off to have a chance at 4 hours. Given i'll be running a hell of a lot more, approx how much should my daily intake be.

Secondly, all the training plans have distances, how should i include speeds into it? Having seen what people have to say about miles 21-26 i feel training toward a 3 hours 20 time would give me enough room to struggle though the last part and still keep my side of the bet.

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On the diet, I'd say keep track of what you eat and adjust up or down as you need to. I don't know how one would go about giving a recommendation meant to offset/counterbalance a workout plan-- that that workout plan doesn't exist is merely a detail.

As far as race pace goes, you don't need to worry about that at all at the beginning. Eventually you work up to about a run a week at race pace. I'm surprised your planner doesn't discuss this.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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A few more questions, with regards to eating more...I'm a reasonable amount overwieght, probably 1.5 stones which will need to come off to have a chance at 4 hours. Given i'll be running a hell of a lot more, approx how much should my daily intake be.


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For someone overweight 4 hours is extremely fast.

The last 6.2 miles are a lot tougher than the first 20.

I ran London in 1986. My time at 20 miles was under 2:14. Was never hurting or in trouble. Yet I DID NOT break 3 hours.
Averaged 6:40/mile for the first 20.
Averaged about 8/mile for the last 6.2.
Was totally unaware that I was slowing down.

You must run in shoes which are broken in. At
least 50 to 100 miles on those shoes. Wear new
socks. Practice drinking water during training.
You may find that you can't drink while running.

I hope you don't mean April 2008. You don't have
enough time to train properly. Breaking 5 hours
is a more realistic goal.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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Secondly, all the training plans have distances, how should i include speeds into it? Having seen what people have to say about miles 21-26 i feel training toward a 3 hours 20 time would give me enough room to struggle though the last part and still keep my side of the bet.

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Well going back to the FIRST program which I highly recommend in my previous post...a 4hr marathon is a 9:10/mile pace. For your interval track workouts, you should be going at a pace of about 7:00-7:30 per mile, or around 1:45-1:53 per lap. For tempo runs, you should be around 8:30/mile and for the long runs you should be at around a 9:30-10:00/mile pace.

If you didn't check out the FIRST program before, give it a click. I had success building up to decent running shape following virtually the same program on my own before I had ever read about it. Meanwhile I've seen a lot of people try to follow Higdon and drop out with injuries about 2 months in.

DO NOT try to train for a 3:20 marathon. You will completely explode and spend 16 miles or more walking, cramping and puking. For every 20 seconds per mile too fast you run in the first 5 miles, you end up paying for it at least 3 times over later in the race.

Re: Marathon Training
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Combs

P Diddy ran a marathon recently. He had he own personal trainer. Ran 4:18 and was very please with his time.

Under 4 hours is not realistic. Very few first time marathoners succeed in running the entire 26 miles. You will be walking part of the time. To break 4 hours you will need to average 8:30/mile or 5:25/km. Run a 10k. If you can't break 50 minutes, forget 4 hours. It's just not possible.

Re: Marathon Training
 

Meant average 8:30/m while you're running, since you expect to walk part of the course.

There seems to be a wind tunnel between miles 22 and 24 on the London course. Slows the entire race down.

Re: Marathon Training
 

I'm 6'4" 195 lbs and can run 1 mile in 6 minutes. I've never run for longer than 40 minutes at a time. What are my chances of having what it takes to run a 3:10 marathon with 6 months of training?

Re: Marathon Training
 

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I'm 6'4" 195 lbs and can run 1 mile in 6 minutes. I've never run for longer than 40 minutes at a time. What are my chances of having what it takes to run a 3:10 marathon with 6 months of training?

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Not good but not impossible. We know basically nothing about your actual running ability since it's completely undeveloped. A 3:10 on your first try would be exceptional. If you actually stuck with a good program and didn't get hurt 3:30-3:40 would be a good result in 6 months. 3:10 would be reasonable within 12-18 months if you decided to stick with it.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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I'm 6'4" 195 lbs and can run 1 mile in 6 minutes. I've never run for longer than 40 minutes at a time. What are my chances of having what it takes to run a 3:10 marathon with 6 months of training?

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Nearly zero. 3:10 is 7:15/mile. By mile 10 7:30 will seem like an impossible task.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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I'm 6'4" 195 lbs

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I can't remember many runners your shape. Maybe because I wasn't looking for them and that height isn't all that common as it is.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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I'm 6'4" 195 lbs and can run 1 mile in 6 minutes. I've never run for longer than 40 minutes at a time. What are my chances of having what it takes to run a 3:10 marathon with 6 months of training?

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Nearly zero. 3:10 is 7:15/mile. By mile 10 7:30 will seem like an impossible task.

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Really, if I train hard for the next 6 months, zero chance? What if I'm a natural?

Re: Marathon Training
 

imo, 3:10 would be a pretty ambitious goal for 6 months, natural or not. i did my first marathon in 3 hours and 40 seconds with about 9 months of serious training, but i was already in excellent physical shape. along with some occasional running, i moved furniture for a living, and played softball two days a week in the summer, and ice hockey two days a week in the winter. as you can see i already had a very sound base to build upon, and was able to train fairly hard from the beginning. i was also able to avoid any injuries and/or setbacks.

the training program i used was very similar to what has already been described. mixing up longer runs with short ones,and one day a week of hill training. i gradually increased my mileage and did the one slow long run per week, peaking at 22 miles two weeks before race day. i trained 6 days per week, and was up to 45 or 50 miles per week not including the long run. i also did 7 or 8 races during that time frame, mainly 10k, and a couple of ten milers.

last but not least, "hitting the wall" is a very real probability, and trying to put an exact number on your time is at best, unrealistic. i know that i trained to go faster, but at some point i just started slowing down, and had several miles near the end that just didn't feel very good.

anyway, good luck

Re: Marathon Training
 

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Nearly zero. 3:10 is 7:15/mile. By mile 10 7:30 will seem like an impossible task.

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Really, if I train hard for the next 6 months, zero chance? What if I'm a natural?

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Lance Armstrong trained for about 6 months for his first marathon. Lance has about the highest VO2 max known. He had Alberto Salazar(pass NY winner) pace him. His time was 2:59 and lots of seconds.
Are you that much of a natural?
Your chance of winning the 2008 WSOP ME is greater than your chances of running under 3:10 on 6 months training. That assumes you currently have no run base. Meaning currently at running no miles a week.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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Lance Armstrong trained for about 6 months for his first marathon. Lance has about the highest VO2 max known. He had Alberto Salazar(pass NY winner) pace him. His time was 2:59 and lots of seconds.


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Lance trained VERY poorly for his first marathon. He relied heavily on talent. He's not a good example to use to convince someone of what they can't do in 6 months. Here's a comment he made during an interview with Runnersworld 6 weeks before his first marathon.

RWD: What kind of running have you been doing?
LA: I have a very low-key approach to the marathon. Lately I've been running 45 to 60 minutes. Usually it's about five to ten miles. On Tuesday, I ran seven miles in Central Park. My longest run so far is 13 miles, so it would probably be a good idea to get some longer runs in. You can tell my training isn't very scientific about this. Most of the time I'm running with people and we're talking about business or life and my scheduling.

Re: Marathon Training
 

One year later, Lance ran 2:46 with proper training.

3:10 is very fast for a marathon. Most marathoners who can break 3:10 can also run 40 in a 10K. 6 minutes for one single mile isn't that fast. Five times your 10K is a better indicator for predicting marathon time.

Re: Marathon Training
 

follow this training guide

this man has helped thousands

edit: after reading thru it seems many people have posted the same thing, you should obviously follow it ldo

Re: Marathon Training
 

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[ QUOTE ]
26.5 miles.

I can make as much time as would be needed to complete it in less than 4 hours. Given my fitness levels aren't great the amount of time i can train each week will be limited.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I've never trained specifically for a marathon since I normally do a lot of cardio, but theoretically the best way to train for this event would be...

1) OK you have 5 months until this event. this gives you 20 weeks to prepare - thats not a lot of time though if you keep strict with your training and incorporate some dieting advice (basically eat a lot :P) you'll be fine.
2) Before you do start make sure you have some proper running shoes - maybe visit a podiatrist if you can be bothered? They usually have reccomendations of how to improve your running posture and can tell you which shows would fit you best or even where to get custom running shoes.
3)You should train 3-4x a week. Now obviously you can't be doing full marathons every day (nor shouldnt) but every 5th week you should attempt to do the length of the marathon - too see how your progress is. You might just want to go for runs for 1-1.5 hours and try increase distance each time. Start off gradually though - maybe start off at 3x a week for 1 hour and try gradually increase time and then distance.
4) You also want to be able to "peak" for the event. The best way to peak for the event is to spend some time leading up to the event training at less intensity then what you're used too - so for a week before the marathon you may only want to run twice a week and extrapolate the time/distance as to how you'll go in the marathon. Also at week 8 and 14 you may also want to take a rest week where you train only 2x a week so to keep you from over training.

That my IMO, somebody more experienced might have a better idea.

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this is horrible advice. esp the bolded. most of the other stuff is wrong too. op just ignore this post.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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Lance Armstrong trained for about 6 months for his first marathon. Lance has about the highest VO2 max known.

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Lance Armstrong by contrast reports a VO2 Max of about 84 to 85, but even this is a bit lower than the highest-ever recorded VO2 Max of 93.

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link

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Derek Clayton, marathon world record holder at the end of the 60’s, had a lower VO2max value than mine, about 69 ml/kg/min, but he could run the marathon in 2h09’, approximately 20 minutes faster than my best performance ever.

This simply because he was able to run at an intensity of 90-92% of his VO2max without accumulating relevant concentrations of lactic acid: less than 2.5 mM/L!
At the same percentage of my VO2max value, my lactate concentration exceeded 8 mM/l.

In cycling the measuring of VO2max has about the same meaning as in running: it is useful and indicative of the potentiality of the athlete, but once again its correlation with competitive results is not so tight.
Lance Armstrong for instance was measured a VO2max of 82 ml/kg/min, which is an excellent value, but common to many other professional athletes that obtained far inferior results in their careers.

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link

List of elite athlete's VO2 max


That all said, these are lab tested VO2 Max. Some have suggested that in cycling events, the usage of chemistry altering substances can artificially increase these levels.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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first off how long is the london marathon?

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Umm, isn't this sort of defined by the fact that it is a marathon?

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uh...non-competitive marathons can vary in length. Thanks for your obviosly helpful post but

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uh... a marathon is always 26.2 miles.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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26.5 miles.

I can make as much time as would be needed to complete it in less than 4 hours. Given my fitness levels aren't great the amount of time i can train each week will be limited.

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3)You should train 3-4x a week. Now obviously you can't be doing full marathons every day (nor shouldnt) but every 5th week you should attempt to do the length of the marathon - too see how your progress is. You might just want to go for runs for 1-1.5 hours and try increase distance each time. Start off gradually though - maybe start off at 3x a week for 1 hour and try gradually increase time and then distance.


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You should not be running the length of a marathon in training. If you are training to just complete the marathon there is no need to do more then 22 miles. 20-21 miles 3 times is more then enough.

Re: Marathon Training
 

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Secondly, all the training plans have distances, how should i include speeds into it? Having seen what people have to say about miles 21-26 i feel training toward a 3 hours 20 time would give me enough room to struggle though the last part and still keep my side of the bet.

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Do not start off at a pace significantly faster then what you can maintain for the distance. If you are in 4:00 shape, you may want to run the first part at 3:50 pace but nothing faster. If you go out at 3:20 pace and are in shape for a 4:00 marathon you will crash and burn and it will be ugly.

Re: Marathon Training
 

I'll just address a few things:

1. Longest distance to run during training: while there is some debate on this, most people are now saying that running 26 or more is not necessary during training (mainly influenced by Hal's philosophy). I would say you do not need to.

2. Don't do speedwork for your first marathon training, especially with only 20 weeks to train. For beginning or average runners, speedwork is best left for the off-season when you are building your base. If you try to cram that in now you will probably just injure yourself.

3. The best advice here was the one about your starting pace. It is beyond easy to go out at a much higher pace than you are capable of sustaining, thinking "hey, this is easy!" and then crashing around mile 15. If you start at your pace, it will feel painfully slow. It is crucial that you start at your goal pace (assuming you are capable of meeting your goal, of course).

4. LOL @ "different marathon lengths." One of the funniest things I have read in a while.

Good luck, you can break 4 hours, just stay on a training schedule and do NOT try to cram in too much training as you get closer to the race and start freaking out.