AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

Running pretty bad, so I'm probably a little more likely to be flighty here.
CO is a 64/14/1.29 over 74 hands and
Button is a 28/8/2.4 over 72 hands.

I'm thinking river might have been a call just because the pot was so huge, but I'm really not sure how to play this here.

Button can be pretty tricky. Started donking a lot of flops vs. me but quit when I started calling him down. Did it with top pair in position when he 3-barreled.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10.00 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#FF0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#FF0000">CO 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#FF0000">CO raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">BB bets</font>, Hero folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB


One more question, does anyone here datamine FT? I open the tables up and run pokertracker, but for some reason the hands aren't importing like they used to. Did they change the software?

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

Cap the flop for value and hopefully to drive BB out. I expect you have the best hand most of the time. Either way you got the backdoor NFD, straight, Ace probably improves as well. None the less, cap for value and protection. Or, could be chopping as well.

Obv like the worst turn card in the deck. I'm not sure a Jack will scoop the pot at this point. You have awful position, stuck betwen a raising war. That 10 should slow CO down most of the time, right? Why would BB donk into a 3bet after not capping? I think he must have a straight or KT. Ugh. Maybe there is a fold but you really can't know CO is going to keep raising. Looks like he has 44 or something, idk. I'd just fold to the CO raise on the turn and be mad.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
cap for value and protection

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it quite hard to protect when you're last to act on the 3-bet? Anyone calling 3 so far will definately call one more, right?

Turn we get stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm hard pressed to find a fold in a big pot but it sure looks like we're behind, drawing to 2 outs which might lead to a split, and..stuck in the middle of a bet and a raise.

Reads:
CO hasn't really been that aggressive post flop over the 74 hands you've seen and here he's 3-betting the flop. BB could be betting 2 diamonds on the flop but donking again on the turn he looks like he's actually hit something else (straight, 2P, set...).

Am I weak for wanting to fold the turn? Are we good often enough?

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

CO in this hand is most likely a calling station whose raise on the turn means you are absolutely behind. I don't have a problem with calling the raise on the turn because we have pot odds to do so closing the action. The river fold is tough but correct because the CO showed so much strength on the turn.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have a problem with calling the raise on the turn because we have pot odds to do so closing the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many outs and how do you count them?

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

grunch

You gave stats for button but I assume you mean BB.

I think you have to call the turn after it gets raised because you picked up the draw for the straight. Good fold on the river.

JT [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or QT [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] were the only reasonable hands I could think of for BB to donk every street.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

Grunge:
Button probably has a hand I think the river is a call hope nobody has a set or KQ.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

This hand is obviously a trainwreck but I don't know that you did anything clearly wrong. I think I call the turn raise getting 14.5:1, but I can see folding because even if you hit a straight it may only be to a chop. Folding the river in a huge pot with TPTK is sad, but you're almost never good at this point. Ouch.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't have a problem with calling the raise on the turn because we have pot odds to do so closing the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many outs and how do you count them?

[/ QUOTE ]

I count J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] as full outs. In addition to those I think some of the time when we hit a king we are good. There is also a small chance that hitting ace or having the low card on board pair may give our hand a shot though I think that chance is negligible. I think the CO has two pair here and the BB has a pair and a draw (most likely a flush draw). Calling getting 14.5:1 we need only 3.5 discounted outs to a full pot and I think we have that here.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

P.S. I would like to see results for this hand to see how wrong I am.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

This hand sucks. But not the way you played it, even though it makes us look pretty stupid.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

CO was being an absolute moron this hand and had K9. BB had AhKh and free rolled me on the turn. I think the river fold was really bad in retrospect, because the pot was laying me 16.5 to 1 and by not capping that flop, my hand was probably a little underrepped.

Also, I think the straight was super unlikely, since no one would have the AJ , especially because I had the Ad in my hand.

I just have trouble being stuck between two aggressive players.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
CO was being an absolute moron this hand and had K9. BB had AhKh and free rolled me on the turn. I think the river fold was really bad in retrospect, because the pot was laying me 16.5 to 1 and by not capping that flop, my hand was probably a little underrepped.

Also, I think the straight was super unlikely, since no one would have the AJ , especially because I had the Ad in my hand.

I just have trouble being stuck between two aggressive players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow CO is more of a maniac than the PT stats led me to believe. Did you thank him for costing you 8BBs?

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

"grouch"

Played well tell the River fold, i say with 15bb it is worth the call.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

In SSHE Ed says in large pots where you are getting 11-1 or better do not fold for one bet even if your hand can only beat a bluff. This hand perfectly illustrates his point.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
In SSHE Ed says in large pots where you are getting 11-1 or better do not fold for one bet even if your hand can only beat a bluff. This hand perfectly illustrates his point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure that's not what he said.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
In SSHE Ed says in large pots where you are getting 11-1 or better do not fold for one bet even if your hand can only beat a bluff. This hand perfectly illustrates his point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, what? Can you quote the page number, please? I guess, my b/f has been wrong all this time. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

[ QUOTE ]
In SSHE Ed says in large pots where you are getting 11-1 or better do not fold for one bet even if your hand can only beat a bluff. This hand perfectly illustrates his point.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm going bozlax on this one. Yes, Ed does talk about not folding big hands for one bet on the river. But you need to do some better reading for context and start thinking about what he is really saying, otherwise you wouldn't make such a silly comment about this hand perfectly illustrating the point.

OP is NOT folding the hand for one bet on the river closing the action. If he were closing the action I'm sure OP would have made the crying call, in which case he would be following Ed's advice and he would be perfectly justified to do so for a lot of reasons. This is something entirely different. CO has been going nuts and has yet to act behind OP. He may very well raise, and then the more conservative BB might just raise him back, thereby causing OP to pay not one but two or three bets to see the showdown which he is not even 10% likely to win. According to the behavior being displayed by the opponents on previous streets they already were implying they could beat TPTK and the river filled in the flush in case one of the other opponents was a moron and relying on that.

No, the river fold is fine, even in this large pot.

LATE NOTE: Bella, in SSHE check out the river play section entitled "Playing the River When the Pot Is Big". The quote that is being misused here is "Even if you are almost sure that you are beaten, when the pot is large on the river, do not fold decent hands for one bet." He then proceeds to explain why this makes sense for a number of reasons, but none of them include sticking your neck out when you have people yet to act behind you that are very likely to raise. In the example he does give where he suggests calling while people are yet to act behind he specifically describes them as calling stations.

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

[ QUOTE ]

LATE NOTE: Bella, in SSHE check out the river play section entitled "Playing the River When the Pot Is Big". The quote that is being misused here is "Even if you are almost sure that you are beaten, when the pot is large on the river, do not fold decent hands for one bet." He then proceeds to explain why this makes sense for a number of reasons, but none of them include sticking your neck out when you have people yet to act behind you that are very likely to raise. In the example he does give where he suggests calling while people are yet to act behind he specifically describes them as calling stations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm cranky from the lack of sleep. I know where the quote is located and wanted Blzdwrath to explain his incorrect reasoning. But then you went ahead and ruined it by explaining it yourself. LOL. Thx Origami [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(I am not really contending that you "ruined it", your answer was excellent as the other warning on stats were, too).

Re: AKo .5/1 Scary multiway board.
 

Sorry Bella, my level-meter must have been broken today. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

My main regret is that I'm not as entertaining as other forumites when berating somebody.