64s, do i bluff the river?
 

No real reads.
Any merit in bluffing the river? Did i [censored] up anytime before that? Considered raising the turn, but got scared

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $134.75
UTG+1: $46.01
CO: $86.80
Button: $98.95
SB: $106.10
Hero: $174.15

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
4 folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $3</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($6, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $4</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($14, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $8</font>, Hero calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($30, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero..?

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

Fold flop. I don't like floating unknowns, because they could be stations. I'd check behind. I think if he has a Q or better, he's going to call even if he puts you on a flush.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

This looks kind of weak, especially with him checking the river. Could we not raise turn here with our combo draw?

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

Fold flop, dont bluff river against an unknown becuase your line only represents flush draws and a regular 100nl player will absolutely call down with a large part of his range.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

Hmm, i thought this was a pretty decent flop to float, with the gutshot, rr flush and since he was sb.
Cant i represent a Q here? I was thinking if he maybe had a small pair, TT or less, or maybe some ace that was double-barreling.

But, i guess i need to tighten up on my floating. =)

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

Raise flop. Edit: meh, floating might be better.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

"No real reads" - I got this far, and I can tell you the answer is no.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold flop, dont bluff river against an unknown becuase your line only represents flush draws and a regular 100nl player will absolutely call down with a large part of his range.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it doesn't. His play reps Qx/fd and the fd just hit.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

i like a turn raise - 27ish. you'll get him off spade draws, 77-JJ, and sometimes he'll even fold weak Q's.
i dont really like flop given villain is unknown and you didnt want to raise the turn tho...

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

raise turn please, DONT bluff river after just calling

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

Ok, so I'm going to be the first one to say bluff the river. Like Sexton says, you have 6-high and the only way to win the pot is to bet at it.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

Looks like I'm the only one who likes the flop. Looks like I'm the only one who likes the turn. And looks like I'm the only one who likes a river bluff [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

I like bluffing the river cause villain's bets look weak.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

don't make moves on random unknowns

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like I'm the only one who likes the flop. Looks like I'm the only one who likes the turn. And looks like I'm the only one who likes a river bluff [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone is arguing about the turn.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks like I'm the only one who likes the flop. Looks like I'm the only one who likes the turn. And looks like I'm the only one who likes a river bluff [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone is arguing about the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
The only comments I've read about the turn is raise, though I guess the ones not commenting on it might think it's ok.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

Fwiw I this betting the river is clearly good because his range probably is PPs&lt;JJ, some random 5x/wheel draws and some other random Ax/air 2nd barrelling. Sometimes he check/calls with Qx/Jx but not at all close to often enough for outweighting the times he fold. if we bet like 22 we do a perfect job representing Qx/flush and he only needs to fold like 40%.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I'm going to be the first one to say bluff the river. Like Sexton says, you have 6-high and the only way to win the pot is to bet at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since we're spouting cliches, your goal is to win monies not pots.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

i think bluffing the river is pretty marginal against an unknown, so i like it. its like an image freeroll.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I'm going to be the first one to say bluff the river. Like Sexton says, you have 6-high and the only way to win the pot is to bet at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since we're spouting cliches, your goal is to win monies not pots.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I know. It was a joke although a bad one. I made another post on why I like betting the river though.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

Personally I don't like firing the river because even tho the opponent has an obviously (usually) weak hand, that doesn't mean he will fold it. If his flop &amp; turn play are any indication of his skill, I seriously doubt he folds second pair.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I don't like firing the river because even tho the opponent has an obviously (usually) weak hand, that doesn't mean he will fold it. If his flop &amp; turn play are any indication of his skill, I seriously doubt he folds second pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't really see how we go from villain making his bets on the smallish side (2/3ish) to him being a superstation donk. its not like he's leading out for 1/4 the pot or something, so i wouldnt really draw any conclusions from that.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I don't like firing the river because even tho the opponent has an obviously (usually) weak hand, that doesn't mean he will fold it. If his flop &amp; turn play are any indication of his skill, I seriously doubt he folds second pair.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you think he has Jx? He'll show up with Jx very rarely imo. And do you really think he calls with PPs&lt;JJ? The hands we've repped is a draw that hit and Qx. He'll also show up with some Ax/air second barrels that our bet will certainly fold out.

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

dci, youre right. i almost edited that out but got too lazy.

nick, the Jack was just an example of a hand he wont fold. my point was that he is going to call a lot here

Re: 64s, do i bluff the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
nick, the Jack was just an example of a hand he wont fold. my point was that he is going to call a lot here

[/ QUOTE ]
But why don't you put him on a likely range instead? Jx will make up a really small portion of the range and Qx is imo the only likely hand that will call. In the range I mentioned most hands will fold. Clearly more than 40%. His weak turnbet also tilts the range towards weaker holdings.