2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

I'm new to stud and i was wondering about two hands.
Any comments highly appreciated. Thanks!

Hand 1)

7 Card Stud High ($1/$2), Ante $0.20, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 2: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (7.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___double-bets
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

5th Street - (6.80 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___raises

6th Street - (13.80 BB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

River - (15.80 BB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets___raises

Total pot: (21.80 BB - $43.60)

On 5th i raise for a free card, stupid or std?
I guess i should have folded 4th, right?




Hand 2)

7 Card Stud High ($1/$2), Ante $0.20, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (5.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 2: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Seat 4: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___double-bets
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___?

Is this a fold, call or raise?
If we raise or call, how do we proceed in the hand?

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

Hand 1:

you can fold 3rd with so many dead straight, pair, and flush outs. Definitely fold 4th.

Hand 2: This is read dependent. Given the dead 3 I probably call until I hit a second pair. He could very well have trips here so I am not thrilled about a raise...as you may know, having two 3s out there actually makes it more likely that villain started with split 3s (or does that only work if they are aces? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]).

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

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Hand 1:

you can fold 3rd with so many dead straight, pair, and flush outs. Definitely fold 4th.


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What do you think about the rest of the hand given i didnt fold?

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Hand 2: This is read dependent. Given the dead 3 I probably call until I hit a second pair. He could very well have trips here so I am not thrilled about a raise...as you may know, having two 3s out there actually makes it more likely that villain started with split 3s (or does that only work if they are aces? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]).

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I dont understand your logic here, but in the hand i assume i'm behind to most likely two pair and was wondering if this is a spot where i should raise anyway in order to get it HU.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

Hand 1: The call on 3rd is specious from early position given the dead cards, but I don't mind it since the j is the highest upcard. Just fold 4th, you dont know where you are and seat 1 likel yhas a better draw than you. As played, dont raise 5th, try to get there cheaply

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

Hand 1:
Raising on 5th last to act against a better hand and a likely better draw seems like quite the spew. Given the reraise on 5th, you have to think at least trips...given that, I think the river raise is foolish, but so is playing the hand on 4th....show how much errors compound themselves. You called 4th and are now chasing a hand that if it gets there might not even be the winner.

Hand 2:
As I said, its read dependent. If you think you won't get reraised and you think the other hands would call a paired door full bet but not a raise then go for it. Chances are at least one of them is folding anyway so i would just call and not bloat the pot any further with your dog hand. Once you make the pot that big I guess you might have the odds to chase your 2 Kings if you get 3 bet? no probably not.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

For hand 1, I would have folded on 3rd and out very quick on 4th to the paired board. I wouldn't have raised on any street. 5th showed that he had the trips and could easily draw to the boat. If he didn't make the boat he shouldn't bet out on 7th and as such you can't raise when he does.

[ QUOTE ]
Given the dead 3 I probably call until I hit a second pair. He could very well have trips here so I am not thrilled about a raise...as you may know, having two 3s out there actually makes it more likely that villain started with split 3s (or does that only work if they are aces? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]).

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This isn't true. If two cards are out (in this case the 3) the chances of each individual having a split is lower than if only one 3 was showing. However, the probability at least one having a pair is greater than if only one 3 was on the board.

Anyway, it is read dependent, but with a dead 3 out there its not correct to play a pair of 3s and so he has a pocket pair or flush draw. As such you can call. Me, depending on my mood, I'll fold as the pot is small and why gamble on the off chance? Fold and pick a better spot.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

#1 Fold 3rd. Since you didn't, on 5th why are you raising 2 players with more threatening boards than you? Unless your villian is a moron (or has a monster), he seems to not care if you or seat 1 has made a flush. Same with the river.

#2 3rd is correct (although some people at 1/2 stud absolutely WILL NOT fold a pair on 3rd no matter how thin they're drawing). On 4th it would help to have a read but I wouldn't be shocked if he has trips already. If seat 2 catches another spade & you don't improve, it maybe time to get the dell outta hodge.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

Hand 1 I am folding 3rd. One of your direct cards to make a straight as well as 2-3 other cards that will make your straight.

Hand 2 I'm putting him on 2 pair here. Unless he has a Q-A kicker with 3's i'm sure he's not limping a bad pair of 3s with one already dead. I'd call there.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

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Unless he has a Q-A kicker with 3's i'm sure he's not limping a bad pair of 3s with one already dead.

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Well a good player wouldn't but what makes you think villain is a good player?

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

thats why a read on the player always helps. I always assume they are good until I get a read on them.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

Yikes, if assuming that a player is good means that you'll end up putting them on a weaker hand, that's not good. I actually assume most players are pretty bad until I know otherwise. A bad player could have 2 pair, OR trips, OR some silly 3 flush that he thinks looks intimidating now that he paired his door.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

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thats why a read on the player always helps. I always assume they are good until I get a read on them.

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I assume the opposite, especially given the stakes.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

just cause I assume they are good doesn't mean seeing the cards and the way they play it, my read will be definite. I usually call down to see what they have here.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

Thanks for all the answers. I feel that there is still a lot of basic stuff i dont understand yet.

If we assume (for the sake of discussion) that in hand 2, seat 4 has a small two pair and seat 2 has a 4-flush. Is it correct to raise to force seat 2 out?

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the answers. I feel that there is still a lot of basic stuff i dont understand yet.

If we assume (for the sake of discussion) that in hand 2, seat 4 has a small two pair and seat 2 has a 4-flush. Is it correct to raise to force seat 2 out?

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GL with that. You won't get either one to fold in a 1/2 limit game.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the answers. I feel that there is still a lot of basic stuff i dont understand yet.

If we assume (for the sake of discussion) that in hand 2, seat 4 has a small two pair and seat 2 has a 4-flush. Is it correct to raise to force seat 2 out?

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GL with that. You won't get either one to fold in a 1/2 limit game.

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Yeah, i guess you're right, but in theory it is correct, right? Just to make sure i understand that.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the answers. I feel that there is still a lot of basic stuff i dont understand yet.

If we assume (for the sake of discussion) that in hand 2, seat 4 has a small two pair and seat 2 has a 4-flush. Is it correct to raise to force seat 2 out?

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GL with that. You won't get either one to fold in a 1/2 limit game.

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Yeah, i guess you're right, but in theory it is correct, right? Just to make sure i understand that.

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IMO, the correct play here would be to check & fold to a bet. You have 1 pair up against 2 pair & a pretty live flush draw (plus 1 over card). You have to dodge a lot of outs. I just can't see you getting there. Pick a better spot.


FWIW, if the flush draw was out of the picture & it was HU...my answer would be to see another card.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the answers. I feel that there is still a lot of basic stuff i dont understand yet.

If we assume (for the sake of discussion) that in hand 2, seat 4 has a small two pair and seat 2 has a 4-flush. Is it correct to raise to force seat 2 out?

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It'll be hard for you to knock him out considering the seat position. If he checked the next street, you checked and the flush draw rases then he could raise to put pressure on you, but you aren't in a position to do this yourself.

The flush wont raise you as he doesn't want to lose customers.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

Yes you want to make the flush draw pay, and maybe fold if you can. The object in stud is to eliminate players out of the hand. You want them out or pay for their draws. Even if he has a pair by putting that raise in you may get a check back to you which will allow you to see a free card which maybe will give you a better two pair. You have live outs even if he has a medium two pair. If the flush catches you can't do much about it anyway.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

First hand: third is a fold. With only one Seven gone, it would be a limp. Definitely fold your weak draw to the paired door card on fourth. Raising fifth when you might not even have the best flush draw isn't a good idea. The rest looks fine, although I hate paying off the three-bet on the river. If you have any respect for the other guy at all, you can actually probably fold there.

On the second hand, the paired door card shouldn't have trips. Even bad players realize that a small pair with one out isn't worth playing on third. And if he is clueless enough to play that, he's clueless enough to play a lot of other crap. Paired door cards become a lot less scary when they are held by people who play 60% of their hands or more. I think you need to press on, and I lean towards raising in the hopes of getting it heads-up.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

I won't comment on hand #2, inasmuch as I agree with other responses you have already received.

However, I think hand #1 is worth a reexamination and an alternative way of playing it. As others have already noted, the conventional wisdom play on 3rd street is to fold. But occasionally a stud player is dealt a hand where the combination of his cards, his position and the others' door cards make his foldable hand a hand that instead ought to be raised. I think your situation in hand #1 is a good example of this, i.e., either fold or raise, but don't limp in.

My reasoning for this is that you are in early position with the highest door card, with the next two highest kickers above the door cards, and with the top end of your straight draw very much live. With the door cards visible you can pretty much rule out anyone drawing to a low-to-medium straight or a club flush draw, making this the kind of hand that if you represent strength from the beginning by completing the BI you can narrow the field so that anyone who calls you can be presumed to have at least a pair. Plus, a top end straight drawing hand like yours is actually one that plays better against a small field instead of a large one.

Re: 2 hands Stud hi 1/2
 

If you're going to raise third street with this dog, there should be a reasonable chance that the entire field will fold. I don't think that that will be the case in a high-ante $1/2 game, like, ever.