Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

So I'm playing a little 1-2 HORSE last night and we get to Razz. I have a 7 in 5 cards against a player on my immediate left who has 28Q. He chats "what is this game" and I say it's "Queens wild". He then caps it up with me on fifth. Then on sixth, he pairs his deuce door, I improve to a 6 and we cap it again. River he just smooth calls (?). I'm pushed the pot (he had trip twos) and he chats "I thought I had 4 deuces".

Game selection is everything.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

Way to be a huge dick.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

Well, it was a bit dickish. But I did tell him after the hand the real deal, and he took it well -- even said something about it being the price of learning. This was extreme, but the way you really win in these games is exploiting players who are weak/inexperienced in one or more of the games. This guy, for instance, was fine at Stud Hi and HE. Hey, why do you think Doyle and Barry G. like playing mixed games with the whales so much?

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

You sir are an angle shooting ass.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

Lying about your hand, that's totally fine. Lying about the rules of the game when there's no dealer to correct you, with the intent to hook a sucker, well, that's just straight being a dick.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

Oh come on! Anyone who would really believe that line about queens wild has to be a total tard.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

Umm guys, I wasn't being serious with the Queens wild thing -- he asked the question as a queen hit his board. While I wasn't going to explain the rules to him in the middle of the hand, and advise him to fold, I was just messing around not trying to seriously make him believe queens were wild. I posted this not because he didn't understand the game, which happens fairly often, but because he actually believed my joke, which has never happened to me before.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

When he caps 5th, it is obvious he does not understand your joke.

Personally I don't have any problem with it though.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

So you didn't think to mention it was a joke once he capped 5th or 6th. The sad is that the other players didn't say anything.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

[ QUOTE ]
When he caps 5th, it is obvious he does not understand your joke.

Personally I don't have any problem with it though.

[/ QUOTE ]
This was online I take it? It's plenty common enough for players to mistake a stud rotation for razz or vice versa, and I think the Q's wild comment was ludicrous enough that I wouldn't consider it an "angle shoot". In fact, if the guy had half a brain he would have chuckled and then checked to see which rotation it actually was.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

I agree a lot of people play stud when it is a razz rotation. In this case the guy knew it was razz, but didn't know the rules. I grant you the guy should have started off at a play money table if he didn't know the rules. I guess where it is kind of an angle shoot to me is on 5th and 6th street when the guy capped and he didn't say anything.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

Yeah, it was obvious he thought it was a high game and (probably) that his queen really was wild. I didn't say anything else during the hand, but immediately after I did tell him razz is a lowball game. He didn't seem to care all the much -- sat with $50, lost it all in about an hour, chatted quite a bit and said "Thanks for the lesson" to the table when he busted. I mean, this is 1-2, not $5-10. It's interesting, I've actually written about angleshooting, and am pretty strict on it, but coffeehousing really doesn't bother me. It's pretty obvious in a game of decption that you can't believe your opponent about what he has, or the rules of the game, or pretty much anything during a hand. Now at showdown, in a live game, I think it's absolutely an angle to deliberately miscall your hand or say "you win" to try to get an opponent to muck. But even there, it's still on opponent to hold his cards until he actually sees he is beat.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

If you make an obviuos sucker play at a guy he might get pissed and leave. If he's dumb enough to think he's playing Queens wild online, you want him to hang around all night.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

I agree people have to take personal responsibility. Guess my biggest problem is that no one else said anything.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you make an obviuos sucker play at a guy he might get pissed and leave. If he's dumb enough to think he's playing Queens wild online, you want him to hang around all night.

[/ QUOTE ]
or at least until he sobers up

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

It wasn't done in a mean spirited way and he didn't take it that way -- he stayed at the table for almost an hour more. Remember, this is 1-2 limit HORSE. While everyone is trying to win, it's mainly a recreational game and the money involved isn't very significant for most of the players.

Re: Razz with Queen\'s wild (lc)
 

[ QUOTE ]
It wasn't done in a mean spirited way and he didn't take it that way --

[/ QUOTE ]When I first read this I thought it was pretty dickish myself. But then, I thought it was joke gone awry. I've seen players come into Razz trnys who play this way, like it's Stud hi, I've never seen anyone correct them.

I think poker ethics is even thornier than day-to-day ethics. It is not our job to rescue anyone at the table, generally. But it is unacceptable to purposely lead them astray - except in getting them to misjudge our hands.

Maybe we need to give the OP a break, here?