Talk me out of this
 

So for the last two and a half months I've been playing 25NL under rolled.

September 1st I moved up to 25NL. At that time my roll was $250.00. I knew I was under rolled, but I had been running so well at 10NL I felt like I could give 25NL a shot. I promised myself that if I lost too much I'd drop back down to 10NL.

Well, by the end of the month I had lost some, but I decided it wasn't "too much" and I kept playing. For nearly all of October my results were sideways, neither trending up or down. Finally, toward the end of the month, I started winning again at a decent clip. Earlier this week my BR hit $500.00.

I know, right now you're all yelling "BBV!!" at your monitors, but I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am. Anyway, this is the part I want help with:

Most of you are familar with Cardrunners. They allow Stars players to pre-pay 6 months of their service via user to user cash transfer. And if you pay this way rather than by the month with a credit card, they are hard and fast about getting 6 months up front.

Six months subscription plus the sign up fee is $250.00. Half of my total BR.

I had decided months ago that when my BR hit $500.00 I was going to withdraw half and buy Cardrunners. Sure, I'll be under rolled, but I was under rolled when I moved to 25NL, and other than an initial down swing I'm beating that level.

I figure Caby & the Boys can only help my game.

I'm just wondering if any of you guys think this might be a bad idea?

Re: Talk me out of this
 

Not that I think Cardrunners wouldn't help your game, but if your beating the nl25 at a good clip why would you think you need this at this point? Besides, don't they mostly deal in 6-max? If you you lose 4 or 5 buy-in's (realistic) do you really want to go back to NL10?

If its something you really want go for it. I'm in the same spot as you. I was able to deposit $50.00 once and I've played enough of the lower limits to know I don't really want to grind them anymore. Meh, I couldn't do something that might set my bank roll back that far.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

It's a simple business decision for you IMO. Revenue is what you're there for but expenses are either a necessity or an option. This one sounds like an optional expense and since your revenues are so low, I'd recommend that you win your way up to $750 then do it. You'll be fully rolled for $25NL and will have proven to yourself and everyone that you can beat the level that you're on. My .02

Re: Talk me out of this
 

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It's a simple business decision for you IMO. Revenue is what you're there for but expenses are either a necessity or an option. This one sounds like an optional expense and since your revenues are so low, I'd recommend that you win your way up to $750 then do it. You'll be fully rolled for $25NL and will have proven to yourself and everyone that you can beat the level that you're on. My .02

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+1. hyper unnecessary. esp being that CR is generally for 6max players, and pertains to a higher level game that will generally do very little good for your level.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

Yea this would be dumb.

Don't do it. I barely use my CR subscriptions.

I would buy it for 50nl when you have 30+ buyins for that level, because it will most definitely help your game because even though it is 6m, the discussions will help you understand the game.

Do not decimate your roll for whatever reason if you can avoid it. $500 is barely enough to play 25nl on, and I just lost $4k playing 400nl, so I know what 10 buyins amounts to(3 days in my book.)

Re: Talk me out of this
 

I agree. Don't do it. Is it worth raising your risk of ruin to 25-50%? I mean, you can get by with 10BI, if you run hot right out of the gate, but can get cold decked and knocked back down to NL10, where you shouldn't spend any more time if you're already beating NL25.

That said, and not wanting to start a seperate thread, is it worth getting Cardrunners to help me move from NL50 to NL100? I've been thinking about playing a fair mix of 6-max, too, to work on my blind play, etc. I have a pretty modest win rate at NL50 and definitely some holes in my game, but the bankroll's fine. I watched skydancing8's, bottomset's, and splitsuit's videos and found them helpful (thanks, guys). Are the cardrunner videos similar? (presumably less cursing than SS's but w/e)

Re: Talk me out of this
 

Here is what I did...I took $14 and bought two low limit full ring videos...and bottomsets were as much value to me as they were. I agree wait until at least 50-100NL to purchase a full subscription.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

don't

Re: Talk me out of this
 

dont do it. there is a huge supply of FR videos here on 2+2. just watch them as most are good and will help you. you dont need CR to beat 25 NL. Now that you have a sufficient BR for 25NL, grind it out.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

Should I buy them as a player who is breakeven at NL200, but with a roll that can afford it?

Re: Talk me out of this
 

Card runner is way advanced for a 25nl grinder

It might make for a usefull investment when your ready to move up to 100nl. Keep doing what your doing and learn from the excelent free resources that are readily available

I mean advanced to apply against your opponents.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

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don't

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Re: Talk me out of this
 

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Card runner is way advanced for a 25nl grinder

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I don't agree with that.

Still I think its dumb to put half your money in a subscription. I recomended in another thread that you'd take a StoxPoker subscription through PSO instead, in just a few thousand hands of play you'd get a one year subscription and you'd still have your roll intact. I don't know if Stox is as good, as I haven't received my subscription yet.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

Haven't used cardrunners but how good is it? It helps you game a lot? I think these forums are much-much better because if you have question or misunderstanding you always can ask and you got very good answers. Also these forums are very active - tons of good thread per/day and its all free.

I think videos are for lazy people who don't care about disccusion and they are too lazy reading forums/writing answers. They just take popcorn, sit on chair and watching vid 10 times and learning as robots.

I recommend to keep your money, read these forums, post hands, analyze your game and improve.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

I got a CR subscription and IMO it helped my game tremendously. Something that you should consider is that there are two levels of subscription, the one for $250 for 6 months, and the $10/mo and $6 per video on top of that. if you do that, say you get 10 videos, thats $70 and you can cancel your subscription. theres only about that many full ring micro/ssnl videos anyway, so if you're gonna get it, i highly suggest doing that instead the 6 month in one purchase. that's what i did as well.

my numbers might be off a little bit for the 2nd subscription but thats essentially how it works.
(also you can't pay via stars if you choose the 2nd option)

i think i should also mention that i got it when i moved up to 100nl. it's probably not necessary for 25nl but once you get to 50nl i would seriously consider it.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

CR is more expensive than you think.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

THe cost-benefit is lousy, so don't.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

You know its not worth it. stop it! keep playing instead

Re: Talk me out of this
 

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CR is more expensive than you think.

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Expensive? What you mean?

Re: Talk me out of this
 

lol @ OP

you'r playing NL10 and NL25

Re: Talk me out of this
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. Don't do it. Is it worth raising your risk of ruin to 25-50%? I mean, you can get by with 10BI, if you run hot right out of the gate, but can get cold decked and knocked back down to NL10, where you shouldn't spend any more time if you're already beating NL25.

That said, and not wanting to start a seperate thread, is it worth getting Cardrunners to help me move from NL50 to NL100? I've been thinking about playing a fair mix of 6-max, too, to work on my blind play, etc. I have a pretty modest win rate at NL50 and definitely some holes in my game, but the bankroll's fine. I watched skydancing8's, bottomset's, and splitsuit's videos and found them helpful (thanks, guys). Are the cardrunner videos similar? (presumably less cursing than SS's but w/e)

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link to vids anyone ?

Re: Talk me out of this
 

Cardrunners is great BTW.

I just watched Sbrugby and Stinger play PLO vs each other. They both made a video of the same session so you could see what the two of them had against each other. Very interesting.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

i remember being able to build much faster at 10nl playing super tight rather than trying to play good poker at 25nl. you should do that for a while and play a fuckton of tables.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

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Cardrunners is great BTW.

I just watched Sbrugby and Stinger play PLO vs each other. They both made a video of the same session so you could see what the two of them had against each other. Very interesting.

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Those are my favorite CR vids of all time, and I don't even play PLO hardly at all. Just fantastic commentary.

OP, Cardrunners is a great investment, but it sounds like you need to continue grinding up your roll for now. Sign up for Cardrunners once you are properly rolled for NL50 and don't look back.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

Spend $250 on CR when you have a $500 roll?

Re: Talk me out of this
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree. Don't do it. Is it worth raising your risk of ruin to 25-50%? I mean, you can get by with 10BI, if you run hot right out of the gate, but can get cold decked and knocked back down to NL10, where you shouldn't spend any more time if you're already beating NL25.

That said, and not wanting to start a seperate thread, is it worth getting Cardrunners to help me move from NL50 to NL100? I've been thinking about playing a fair mix of 6-max, too, to work on my blind play, etc. I have a pretty modest win rate at NL50 and definitely some holes in my game, but the bankroll's fine. I watched skydancing8's, bottomset's, and splitsuit's videos and found them helpful (thanks, guys). Are the cardrunner videos similar? (presumably less cursing than SS's but w/e)

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link to vids anyone ?

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Check the full ring master sticky. There's a bunch of them towards the bottom, above the Pooh-Bah posts.

Re: Talk me out of this
 

OK, you guys got through to me.

Rather than buy 6 months of card runners and play 25NL with only 10 buy-ins, I decided to hold off on Cardrunners and take a shot at 50NL with only 10 buy-ins.

So far I'm up 50bb. And while I haven't noticed any real difference in the quality of play (donks still pay off my straights & flushes w/ top pair), I have noticed that competition for the juiciest tables is tougher.

I'll stay at 50NL until I either donk off a few buy-ins or grow my roll to 2k. Once my roll hits 2K I'll buy Cardrunners and take a shot at 100NL.

Thanks guys!

phy

Re: Talk me out of this
 

teach me how to hit str8s and flushes and ill buy u 3years of CR


and no...im not kidding

(glad to hear u made a +EV choice tho. tho i might hold off on that perma-shot at 50nl till ur BR is a bit bigger)

Re: Talk me out of this
 

I'm not crushing it or anything, but 50NL is really not that hard. My feeling is that as long as you're good at the level you're at, the next level isn't really going to be that tough. Just run gooood [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]