$10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t200/t400
(Ante: t50)
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t5960
UTG+1: t18366
MP1: t4577
MP2: t2782
CO: t11964
Hero: t6352
SB: t8257
BB: t5845

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
4 folds, CO calls t400 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1000)</font>, Hero calls t400 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1400)</font>, SB calls t200 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1800)</font>, BB checks.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t2000, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets t400</font>...

Is this a spot to push?

I had been pushing somewhat regularly (and taking down pots) leading up to this, causing others to comment. They wanted to play cheap, so I was fairly certain I wouldn't get raised preflop, but might get looked up. But was it a bad limp?

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

Starting pot is 1K. With 6300 I'm usually saving chips from playing hands like this. I wouldn't push in this spot, especially with SB and BB still to act; a call is good. You're getting 6:1 plus implied odds. Besides, if SB or BB wakes up with a 9 you'll be glad you only lost the 400 on the flop.

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

In short, No

I agree with yNnOs here, as played just call 400 and see what happens

Keeping the pot smaller works to your benefit here, especially if you turn club. Either way, pushing on the flop with your remaining stack is fairly awkward, not to mention quite problematic if the blinds wake up with a hand or good/better draw.

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

I don't like limping into this pot with 15BBs even if you are in position..

As played I would make a good sized raise to 2400 or so thus representing a strong hand and committing yourself to the pot..

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

Ok, thanks for the feedback. I pushed, got called by T9, picked up a club on the turn, hit a K for a straight on the river. (brag) I went on to use those chips to finish second.

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

Well I liked that when you made the semi bluff all in you did it with outs... and thats about all I like with this hand... nice result though ;P ... and nice finish

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

preflop call is borderline imo - but that is a difficult stack-size - too deep to push, too shallow to call.

as you have no overcards this is a 8-outer so you need a good ammount of FE to raise. You might get some of the smaller PP to fold, but for sure no Q and no 9 - but overall I don't think the flop texture is very favorable for a push so I would also just call.

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

With an M of 6 I don't like calling pre. This almost looks like a good spot to jam though. Depending on table image and dynamics... I think you could appear pretty strong here. Am I wrong in thinking that?

fold&gt;shove&gt;call

Edit: Folding is still your best option though.

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

^I'm talking about pre... didn't make that clear enough.

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

fold preflop. you have 16BB limping is horrible you should only be raising any hand you enter which should only be with hands that you are willing to get all your money in the middle with.

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

[ QUOTE ]

fold&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;shove&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;call

Edit: Folding is still your best option though.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a clear fold PF. Calling is so much worse than shoving because of the shallow stack, there's just no room to play postflop. Shoving is still bad though, 16BBs is just a bit too deep to start shoving such hands over 1 limper

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

fold&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;shove&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;call

Edit: Folding is still your best option though.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a clear fold PF. Calling is so much worse than shoving because of the shallow stack, there's just no room to play postflop. Shoving is still bad though, 16BBs is just a bit too deep to start shoving such hands over 1 limper

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all pfap, I spend a lot of lurk time in the home poker forum... nice to see you here.

Second, this thread has pretty much nailed it as far as limping being bad because of your stack size. Pushing here isn't terrible but you said you've been pushing a lot and so may get looked up light.

As for the flop, I think you played it perfectly. This is a great spot for an all-in checkraise. I mean, you played JT -- if you're not gonna go to the felt on a Q9x flop, why are you playing JT in the first place?

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

The call preflop is +ev if you feel confident the blinds are unlikely to raise frequently. You have a decent hand (for an unraised pot) on the button in a situation where players are likely to play much tighter. Even in a four-way pot there are obviously quite a few flops where you can just take it down after it's checked to you if you show strength. Ideally you'd have a draw in that spot, but you wouldn't need one, and of course you will flop the best hand with jack-ten a reasonable percentage of the time against the ranges of the three villains. Of course, it would also be nice if you had clear evidence that the bubble play of the other players in the hand had been tighter than their usual play.

It's non-standard but hey, it's profitable for me in the 4/180s [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

I dunno about a shove here -- the blinds could easily have checked a nine or a queen if they felt like you were very likely to take a stab at the pot given your image. Someone could obviously also have the flush draw with the queen and be willing to go with it, and you're down two outs if that's the case. Is the quality of play bad enough that someone might even call all-in with the nut flush draw here? Of course the CO has a good chance of looking you up with almost anything if he puts you on a draw. That said, you're adding 40% to your stack if you take it down, you're probably got 30% equity if you're called and no one's shown any strength. So it's close.

Maybe a smaller raise (but one which you were still intending to call all-in with) might have been a more believable way to represent a big hand?

Re: $10/200 - Near Bubble, Shorty w/ OESD
 

Fold pre, fold flop. Stacking off on a paired two flush board with a OESD can't be a good idea.