Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

Party Poker, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

CO: $1,056.95
BTN: $1,149.05
SB: $880.10
BB: $179
UTG: $246.18
Hero (MP): $1,144.85

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG calls $6, <font color="red">Hero raises to $27</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $27, 3 folds

Flop: ($69) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $49</font>, BTN calls $49

Turn: ($167) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $120</font>, BTN calls $120

River: ($407) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $260</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $953.05 and is All-In</font>

You might know Villain, it´s HesHeatingUp, 26/23/6/27, guess he posts here
Meh...his line is strange, but im never good here, ay?

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

Pretty close, trips raise turn almost always so essentially hes repping 55, 44 or 54, maybe he could have floated with 67 and maybe he couldve called turn with 88, but if hes willing to float that light (67) or call turn with 88 then I think u will also c a decent amount of middle pairs like nines, tens, sevens turned into bluffs and sometimes very reluctant floats. Seems like a fold though in general cause the range of hands that play this way and have u beat isnt that narrow (67, 54, 55, 44, and sometimes 88)

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

I don't see how you can ever be good here, there's like no draw, I guess he has 45s or 44, more likely 44 given stats.
I bet 330 on river, not that I think it matters.

Edit : forgot about 55, you need history for 88 do't you ?

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

This is a fold, looks like a 4 or he's called two streets with 88. I doubt he's floating two streets just to push you off on the river, that's highly FPS.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

Generally in a spot like this, you can't bet the river if you can't fold to a raise.

Without being resultsoriented, I don't like the river bet on itself, unless you have history with villain and could also 3barrel bluff here, which i assume is not the case since you didn't put it in the OP.

Also this board isn't a very good one to turn a made hand into a bluff (for villain ldo), so yes I think he's very strong here and think you have to fold.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

River bet is fine, you result oriented nit.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
you result oriented nit.

[/ QUOTE ]

weee, 1st time in my life being called a nit.

I seriously prefer c/c on the river here against a 26/23/6.

I think villain's Betting range &gt; calling range. (assuming OP's image is standard)

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

Only one way to find out [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Honestly of course I can show up with a made hand turned bluff here, it's a really straightforward question of my frequencies and there's no easy way to figure those out. For sure you have to bet river.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

Since you're a 3/6 TAG at party its mandatory to call this every time since folding TP is the devil.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

arturius everytime i read one of ur posts i ask myself if you play/win at poker

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think villain's Betting range &gt; calling range. (assuming OP's image is standard)

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are you fking kidding me??

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
Only one way to find out [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Honestly of course I can show up with a made hand turned bluff here, it's a really straightforward question of my frequencies and there's no easy way to figure those out. For sure you have to bet river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't listen to him OP, you are probably good like 15-20% of the time on a good day [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
Generally in a spot like this, you can't bet the river if you can't fold to a raise.

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see previous post

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

fold

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
arturius everytime i read one of ur posts i ask myself if you play/win at poker

[/ QUOTE ]

And I have to ask if your sarcasm detector is working.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

Check turn. &lt;----

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

omg the replies in this thread are tilting me

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

i think its more likely that 99 turned itself into a bluff rather than 4x not raising turn

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

feels pretty 55ish, river bet and fold are both standard

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

your river bet is exploitable, no? or is this comment completely results oriented

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think villain's Betting range &gt; calling range. (assuming OP's image is standard)

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are you fking kidding me??

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What do you expect to be villain's calling range on the river?

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Generally in a spot like this, you can't bet the river if you can't fold to a raise.

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see previous post

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well motivated post sir...

I was trying to say that bet/calling this river isn't a profitable play assuming there's no history.

Interested in hearing from you why that's way off or whatever...

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I think villain's Betting range &gt; calling range. (assuming OP's image is standard)

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are you fking kidding me??

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What do you expect to be villain's calling range on the river?

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qx jj tt???


I would have bet a little more on the river, like 290 or 310. Thoughts on that anyone?

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

i dunno, i don't think Qx or JJ or TT should really be paying off what seems like an obvious value bet on the river... hero probably isn't 3-barrelling this board very often and he's not value betting less than like KQ either. seems to me like raising might be better than calling with those hands... i think there's more to this hand than meets the eye.

i would have definitely bet more on the river.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

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hero probably isn't 3-barrelling this board very often

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i think this is a pretty decent board candidate for 2/3 barreling no?

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

maybe i'm way off but the $260 on the river just looks like going for pure value to me. which i suppose could make it a good amount to bluff with...

i don't know anymore

oh right, i guess i shouldn't have said "this board"

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
arturius everytime i read one of ur posts i ask myself if you play/win at poker

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dunno, i don't think Qx or JJ or TT should really be paying off what seems like an obvious value bet on the river... hero probably isn't 3-barrelling this board very often and he's not value betting less than like KQ either. seems to me like raising might be better than calling with those hands... i think there's more to this hand than meets the eye.

i would have definitely bet more on the river.

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I agree.

If you bet the river, you have to bet more.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
arturius everytime i read one of ur posts i ask myself if you play/win at poker

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[/ QUOTE ]

Is this where I start challenging people for HU 4 rollz?

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

first of all his hand range consists almost entirely of made hands w/ some showdown value. how would his betting range EVER be greater than his calling range? now you are saying he's folding Qx/jj-tt, so your statement implies he will fold them to a bet but bet them when checked to? that is nonsensical to me.

as for the other part i quoted... in a vacuum 3 contingencies are possible if we bet the river:
1. bet/folding is the best move.
2. we bet and have to flip a coin.
3. bet/calling is the best move.

your post says that unless betting leads to situation 1 we shouldn't do it. if bet/calling is profitable, why wouldn't we do it? moreover, even getting ourselves stuck in situation 2 isn't bad assuming it doesn't happen often enough to overshadow the times we get called by a worse hand on the river.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

your river bet is too small.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

you almost baited him into pushing by your bet size on the river, because of this i think i call and make a note. if you're beat i think its gotta be 88

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

Don't see how you can be good on this riv. I'd c/c turn an dmaybe vbet riv or let him bluff off if he's floating. I don't like firing all 3 streets here without some history of him calling u down lightly or nething.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

I guess everyone wants to fold AA here too then?

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess everyone wants to fold AA here too then?

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AA=AQ here obv.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

Haven't read replies yet but if villain is very aggro / decent hand reader and is not apt to call with worse but will sometimes bluff-raise you off your hand, is it not better to c/c river and potentially pick off a bluff?

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

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you almost baited him into pushing by your bet size on the river, because of this i think i call and make a note. if you're beat i think its gotta be 88

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The first part of this sentence is 100% correct, and that river bet size (absent a plan) is a MAJOR error, esp against villain as described. However, that doesn't mean you should call. It just means its "less" of a fold than if you had correctly bet 333 and gotten shoved on. Take care to add all variables together in the fashion they should be weighted, and not just say oh I induced this so I have to call, I chked back turn with top pair so I have to call any river, etc. That thinking is common among semi-good regulars and its flat out bad.

To OP, I would suggest going over your bet sizing choices in lots of spots, because this is really a larger leak than you may think. You want to chose a bet size that manipulates your opponent into doing what you want, a bet size that maximizes your EV given all the future actions it encourages/discourages, and a bet size that makes your hand easiest to play. (though you'll often want to put yourself in tough spots that are relatively tougher for your opponent)

There's lots of spots where you should bet like you did, but only if you know exactly how to react to a shove. Normally this requires a polarized opponent, either mega passive or mega LAG. Anyway, call or fold, w/e neither is a big mistake given your read of villain. So the actual hand isn't real important, but if this thread gets you thinking more about the consequences of your bet sizes then that will go a long way to making you a stronger player.

Re: Nl3/6 I hate you. I really do
 

nice post, unarmed