Getting past the rake stakes.
 

ok so i am a winning 50plo player and i just wanna know from you guys that play 2/4plo and up, how does one break this barrier of stakes that just have the rake eat at your profits? i look at my total winnings, and then i look at my total amount raked. its so ridiculous how much poorer i am because the rake is so sick. when ooing and aweing at the profits people post per month at 10/20ish stakes, i just realized my profits are somewhat proportional if i just add my rake in. do winning players at higher stakes make their bankrolls starting from 50plo, or make significant cashins to increase the wad?

im having a very frustrating time trying to accumulate large profits at this level. i can win easy, but i feel like i have to play 200k hands before i can move up one limit with any 50+ buyin roll. if i can afford to cash in a large amount in order to raise my limits, is it worth it?

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

have you ever considered rake back... its quite helpful to counterbalance it at those stakes.. also try sites with decent deposit bonuses... but yes if your a winning player, why not try a small shot at 1/2 2/4

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

Unless you have absolutely no choice in the matter, waiting until you have 50 buy-ins is (IMO) excessive below 1/2 or so. While I don't really feel comfortable playing 1/2 without 40+ buy-ins, I'm fine with 25-30 at .5/1.00.

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

You should be able to beat 50plo for more than the best players beat 2kplo for, even with the rake, before you move up. Otherwise you still have a lot of leaks.

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

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You should be able to beat 50plo for more than the best players beat 2kplo for, even with the rake, before you move up. Otherwise you still have a lot of leaks.

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Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

I moved up from PLO 50 pretty quickly, but I probably ran better than my expectation at that level. It really was easy to win at that level and if you cannot beat the rake there you have some big leaks, like roundtower said.

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

Agreed. I averaged over 11 PTBB/100 there despite giving away about half of my winnings in rake. My advice at those limits is to either bet the pot or raise the pot as much as possible when it's your turn to act. (At least if you're on Stars or FT.) At 10 BB/100, it should take you 25K hands (not 200K hands) to make 50 BI.

To be fair though, 0.5/1 is the level where I have the highest winrate, so the rake difference might be bigger than the skill difference in that small jump. Just about every limit you move up after that though, it will be harder to win at the higher level than it was at the one previous.

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

its not a matter of beating the rake - i know i can do that(its just not 10ptbb/100), and btw i have rakeback. when u say that u have a leaky game if u cant hit a huge winrate, it seems that when i am playing a session there are very few hands where i actually question my play. i know i extract max value for my hands and read my opponents well. most my negative sessions are from simply losing alot of races. im really not questioning my game here, i think i just need to play more hands. should i just post every hand where i go broke(excluding some) to find my leaks? or is this more of a pokerEV thing?

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

you probably need to examine your play more and be more open to the fact that you are doing a lot of things wrong. The reason you are still playing 50plo is not that you can't move up because the rake is so high. Saying

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i know i extract max value for my hands and read my opponents well. most my negative sessions are from simply losing alot of races. im really not questioning my game here

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will really not help you improve.

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

The rake sucks at that level, no doubt. But those games are VERY beatable for 7ptbbs ++ (the better players could beat them over a large sample for 12ptbbs +++ very easily). So focus on playing your best and beating the level for the best winrate possible. Once you have 30 - 40 bi for .5/1, move up. Rinse and repeat. Soon you won't be thinking about rake at all except wanting to pay it so you can clear your [censored] bonus or get your [censored] TV.

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

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you probably need to examine your play more and be more open to the fact that you are doing a lot of things wrong. The reason you are still playing 50plo is not that you can't move up because the rake is so high. Saying

[ QUOTE ]
i know i extract max value for my hands and read my opponents well. most my negative sessions are from simply losing alot of races. im really not questioning my game here

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will really not help you improve.

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Yep, just play more hands, reviewing your play and being open to change is for losers anyway.

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

i want my [censored] tv already. one more month then 42 inches of ftp plasma

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

[ QUOTE ]
you probably need to examine your play more and be more open to the fact that you are doing a lot of things wrong. The reason you are still playing 50plo is not that you can't move up because the rake is so high. Saying

[ QUOTE ]
i know i extract max value for my hands and read my opponents well. most my negative sessions are from simply losing alot of races. im really not questioning my game here

[/ QUOTE ]

will really not help you improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

dont take me for someone who doesnt try to get better and simply just stay that suckouts are to blame. i know im no star player either(i play 50plo lol). but for the work i have put into studying poker(nl,plo,o8,stud) it is just frustrating to see all my potential profits go to rake. i just need a cardrunners subscription.

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

The irony is so sweet.

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

I started PLO at 0.25/0.50 level - played that about 4k hands.
-> moved to 0.50/1 - those games I played about ~10k hands.
-> moved to 1/2 - still play this level sometimes when there´s awfully good game, but very rarely. Have ~70k hands logged in at this level.
-> started to mix in 2/4 after playing at 1/2 about ~20k hands. I currently play these levels (2/4 - 3/6) and some 5/10 shots mixed in. (I always buy-in full, also when I move up).

IMO level of play at 0.5/1 and 1/2 is exactly the same. Sometimes you find better tables at 1/2 than 0.5/1 and vice versa. Player pool is pretty much the same. So I would try to skip 0.5/1 as fast as possible and then learn the routine at 1/2 level, where you can be a big winner even making some big mistakes occasionally. Moving up from 1/2 to bigger games is a little bit harder job, because player pool gets significantly smaller (and somewhat tougher). I´d say that your winrate halves when moving from 1/2 to 2/4 at the beginning at least.

EDIT: I had 1 year experience in limit hold´em before I started playing PLO.

Re: Getting past the rake stakes.
 

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IMO level of play at 0.5/1 and 1/2 is exactly the same. Sometimes you find better tables at 1/2 than 0.5/1 and vice versa. Player pool is pretty much the same.

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This probably depends on the site, but I don't find this to be the case on Stars or UB. It's definitely true that the 1/2 games are sometimes juicier, but on average I think the players are more aggressive and tricky.