anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1157/stat1oa9.png
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/7587/stat2sx8.png

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4873/stat3ns3.png

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8453/stat4mg5.png

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

do I count?

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

yes

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
do I count?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

Don't let it get to you. It's obvious that you're running uncharacteristically poorly, but even more so now that I see your position stats.

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

I think everything looks good to me, I'm not sure what the standard deviation is on 50k hands, but I'd estimate its probably something absurd like 2.5-3ptbb/100

variance in this game really does go beyond all comprehension, in that unless you actually see it, its tough to grasp just what its capable of

in the end it was only .1ptbb/100, but fgators was down 16-20buyins or something sick like that in allin equity after 1.6million hands

the worst part is, its insanely tough to seperate what is variance and what is bad play, people play worse when running bad, especially over long stretches. something like pokerev doesn't tell the story either, it will tell you how you are running AI, but say you get ai with

J9 vs AJ on a KQT board, you have 6% equity, so losing doesn't mean you are running bad on equity, but you are running horrid vs his range

bad cards coming off(ones that kill action, force you to fold, etc) aren't quantifable, the program can't adjust for ranges so if you run into the upper part of someones range more than you should be, not much you can do but tough it out

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

These stats are 3-4% laggier than you were playing before aren't they?

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

QQ and AKo arent even on there so that would probly be a good place to look at some HH.

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
something like pokerev doesn't tell the story either, it will tell you how you are running AI, but say you get ai with

J9 vs AJ on a KQT board, you have 6% equity, so losing doesn't mean you are running bad on equity, but you are running horrid vs his range

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this is why i suggest FR players dont use PokerEV. it doesnt take into acct ranges. it says ur playin baddly gettin it in set>set, flush>flush, set up v set up hand.

im guessing 400nl plays a lot like 6max (light 3b/4b ranges) which increases variance out the ass. so i wudnt rly get down in the dumps about the 5BI down there. just variance im sure.

ur stats seem fine actually. ur position stats are excellent (the ramp-effect takes place, which is obviously what we are looking for). maybe play lower for a lil bit (maybe with a few extra tables, as im not sure if ur the 12tabling type)...just regain some confidence, get a nice strategy together, and go to town on it

glgl

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

things I think help break out of these ruts

play fewer tables

play lower stakes

table select more, play in better games, you may be +EV in any lineup of stars 2/4 FR, but some of them are going to be pretty brutal compared to say an ave 1/2 table, let alone a good 1/2 game

play shorter sessions

get someone to sweat a session or two

*I need to take this advice a lot more, I'm pretty stubborn, and its not fun to drop down in stakes or drop tables, so I understand being reluctant to do them, but honestly after breaking out of similar ruts and looking back, I'm pretty sure I extended them by being stubborn(slowly I'm getting rid of my ego when it comes to poker)

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

Well, there's no shame in limping once in a while. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

From memory, very few (if any) of the most profitable players have such a high PFR% (at least at $1/$2- I'm not so familiar with $2/$4.)

(Also, most of the players that do have a high PFR% are losing players.)

Obviously there is no single optimum VP$IP/PFR% combination but I'd certainly recommend experimenting with closer to a single digit PFR%.

Another point, from a multi-tabling perspective, is that there's clearly an inverse-correlation between a player's PFR% and the focus they can afford each table. In other words the greater the number of hands you're raising pre-flop, the greater your involvement in each of those individual pots- resulting in less attention for your other tables.


How many tables do you play?

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
do I count?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

Hey Renton,

You try out Poker EV?

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

I swear these stats are just like mine lol

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

When determining how you're running, PokerEV is worthless.

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

Poker EV needs to be taken as a grain of salt, but it'll help give u an idea if you're leaking

Re: players whose game i respect, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
Poker EV needs to be taken as a grain of salt, but it'll help give u an idea if you're leaking

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not rly. u can get set<set, being playin well against ranges, and itll tell u that u shud just quit poker all together

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]


From memory, very few (if any) of the most profitable players have such a high PFR% (at least at $1/$2- I'm not so familiar with $2/$4.)

(Also, most of the players that do have a high PFR% are losing players.)



[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but I totally disagree with this.

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

Renton, didn't you make a post about how everytime you got over 15% vpip you started spewing alot? Maybe tone down a bit?

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

I'm kinda skeptical that raising 9-10% from ep is profitable. That means you are going to be playing many marginal hands out of position.

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

Could your bet sizing be a problem? You're selective with your hands and aggressive with then especially with position. You showdown approximately the correct proportion of them and win more than your fair share of showdowns and yet are still losing money. This tell me that you man be winning small showdowns pots and losing massive ones as well as losing money in non-showdown pots.

To put it in perspective I'm nicely up over the last 25k hands with a win$@SD rate of 50.16%. Something to consider, are you perhaps losing too much value when you have a good hand or maybe putting too much into the pot then folding?

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


From memory, very few (if any) of the most profitable players have such a high PFR% (at least at $1/$2- I'm not so familiar with $2/$4.)

(Also, most of the players that do have a high PFR% are losing players.)



[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but I totally disagree with this.

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These are the Top 20 earners from the last 800k hands that I've played.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...FRstatsbmp.jpg

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

Wait,

You play 19/5.5 and this is how much you have won?


Wow this is amazing. I am going to have to re-evaluate everything lol.

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

what's your 3 bet %?

did u finish that video?

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

Woot, I've finally managed to sneak into someone list [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

60% cbet also seems a little low for 17/13...

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wait,

You play 19/5.5 and this is how much you have won?


Wow this is amazing. I am going to have to re-evaluate everything lol.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT... whoa...

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

all that graph suggests to me, is that I should be playing fulltilt

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wait,

You play 19/5.5 and this is how much you have won?


Wow this is amazing. I am going to have to re-evaluate everything lol.

[/ QUOTE ]


Post-flop is where you make your money at full-ring.

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

I completely understand this.

The thing is, playing 19/6 seems like you are giving up a lot of value preflop so that would mean you would have to be playing extremely well postflop to win like this. Obviously maybe my view of this preflop play is wrong, but I'm not sure.

When I move to FTP I will be considering moving down to 1/2 to build my roll(I will prob start with only 5k on there, so yea.)

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

Narena is my hero.

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

Holy [censored] @ that full tilt graphic. Those are some LOW pfr%

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

well I am very surprised at the stats you just gave for the biggest winners. I thought all the best players would be 17/13 or 18/14 or similar

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
I completely understand this.

The thing is, playing 19/6 seems like you are giving up a lot of value preflop so that would mean you would have to be playing extremely well postflop to win like this. Obviously maybe my view of this preflop play is wrong, but I'm not sure.

When I move to FTP I will be considering moving down to 1/2 to build my roll(I will prob start with only 5k on there, so yea.)

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree that 5.5% PFR is giving up value. At the start of last month (200k hands ago) I tweaked my pre-flop game. I'm now around 7.5% PFR. (Meaning for the remaining 600k+ hands in that sample I was playing off of 5% PFR!)

Also, my original post above (regarding PFR Vs # of tables) should be taken into consideration.

[Didn't mean to Highjack your thread Renton! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

#1 change to me from your normal stats seems to be W$WSF... not sure but did your flop AF go up too (from CBing more?)? I think you also used to defend your blinds slightly more?

All those differences I see lead me to guess you recently started trying to play more tables than usual? The overall change in winrate is probably mostly variance though.

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

Interesting stats for winning players. I guess I won't be forcing myself to change my 14.68/6.08, not yet at least, as I feel comfortable with it @ PTBB2.48/100.

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
From memory, very few (if any) of the most profitable players have such a high PFR% (at least at $1/$2- I'm not so familiar with $2/$4.)

(Also, most of the players that do have a high PFR% are losing players.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just as surprised by those results as most of the stars players here... FWIW I've been a little LAGier than Renton for my last 100K hands and assuming your graphic was in ptBB/100 I have basically the same winrate as you (Smart Money). My extra hands compared to Renton are LP though.

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

you're not renton55 right?

1 thing is you have a high steal %...if you're 3 betting defense or 4 betting ranges are weak...you could be spewing a lot there...also...53K hands isn't THAT big of a sample size...but should be looked at imo.

Toss it in poker ev...I know tons of people "dog it" cause it doesn't count set over set, blah blah...but maybe your green line is WAY BELOW your blue line or something (hence paying to much to set mine etc.)

just an idea [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, there's no shame in limping once in a while. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

From memory, very few (if any) of the most profitable players have such a high PFR% (at least at $1/$2- I'm not so familiar with $2/$4.)

(Also, most of the players that do have a high PFR% are losing players.)

Obviously there is no single optimum VP$IP/PFR% combination but I'd certainly recommend experimenting with closer to a single digit PFR%.

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wow..this is completely wrong...ignore it if you want to ever be above 2 ptbb/100 at 2/4

Re: anyone who is reasonable at poker, please read and comment
 

[ QUOTE ]
(Also, most of the players that do have a high PFR% are losing players.)

[/ QUOTE ]
My pfr% is 16%. BOOM.