i played this perfectly, right?
 

villain is 45/6/1 over 250 hands. obviously i put him on QQ+.

i always have the odds to call here right? and there are no lines that are more +EV. (like folding somewhere)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Party Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($164.40)
SB ($201)
BB ($200.75)
UTG ($312.80)
<font color="#C00000">MP ($172.80)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($241.30)</font>

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $18</font>, Hero calls $8.

Flop: ($39) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $30</font>, Hero calls $30.

Turn: ($99) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $50</font>, Hero calls $50.

River: ($199) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP calls $172.80 (All-In), Hero calls $74.80.

Final Pot: $348.60
<font color="#009B00">Main Pot: $348.60, between MP and Hero.</font>
<font color="#009B00">Pot 2: $98, returned to Hero.</font>

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

fine imo

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

I like it. I probably push turn.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

Your initial raise seem a bit over the top with 5-high.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

I so love hands like this. 10/10
A+++

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like it. I probably push turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

by the turn, we are sure he has an overpair, and are sure he isn't folding, so pushing with 30% equity + 0% FE = -EV.

thats why i called the turn, because we have the direct odds to call + an extra $80 or so when we hit that we can avoid losing if we miss, since he will call a river shove close to 100% of the time

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your initial raise seem a bit over the top with 5-high.

[/ QUOTE ]

what is your isolation range from the CO against fishy limpers?

what is your overall VPIP/PFR cos i raise that fairly often in this spot. i play about 22/18 or so

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your initial raise seems completely standard when isolating a donk

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

Looks fine.

Of course, since you're posting this, he had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], right?

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like it. I probably push turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

by the turn, we are sure he has an overpair, and are sure he isn't folding, so pushing with 30% equity + 0% FE = -EV.

thats why i called the turn, because we have the direct odds to call + an extra $80 or so when we hit that we can avoid losing if we miss, since he will call a river shove close to 100% of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like you played it perfect then.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine.

Of course, since you're posting this, he had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], right?

[/ QUOTE ]

no he had KK

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine.

Of course, since you're posting this, he had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], right?

[/ QUOTE ]

no he had KK

[/ QUOTE ]

Results orientated imo. Good job putting 18 dollars in preflop with 5 high fish!

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine.

Of course, since you're posting this, he had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], right?

[/ QUOTE ]

no he had KK

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my next guess. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

The limp-reraise followed by the flop and turn bets make his hand about as transparent as they come.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I so love hands like this. 10/10
A+++

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

i like draws. good call on turn btw, I see so many morons shove here...

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

looks very std. nh sir

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

How is this standard? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would be folding the flop here.

We're calling a PSB against someone who we are reasonably certain will not be slowing down on the turn as they have an overpair.

How do we justify the odds to call here? Really think the implied odds are that high?

Would you fold to a PSB on the turn?

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Really think the implied odds are that high?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that villain's hand is basically face-up and we're almost positive he'll stack off if we hit, yes - the implied odds are that high.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your initial raise seem a bit over the top with 5-high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please stop posting.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

What's your line if he checks a bricked turn? (I always [censored] up spots like that)

Oh, nh. I think the flop is close but as long as you don't raise it's not too bad.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

i dont see any other way to play it

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's your line if he checks a bricked turn? (I always [censored] up spots like that)

Oh, nh. I think the flop is close but as long as you don't raise it's not too bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah that is a tough spot. i think we have to fold to a decent size turn bet if we don't get any more outs. we would need to be a little deeper to call again on the turn UI

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

I just loveeeee hands like these

I bet he said "lol calling 18$ preflop with 5 high"?

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your initial raise seem a bit over the top with 5-high.

[/ QUOTE ]

no

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

Going through the odds, and correct me if I'm wrong here.

We'll assume with discounted outs, we improve our hand about 25% of the time. This is assuming 9 hearts to make our flush, and lets say giving us a straight draw gives us an extra say 3 outs (really 6).

Lets also assume that villain is going to bet between half pot and full pot. So we'll average it out at $75 for an average bet on the turn.

75% of the time, when the turn is a brick, we're going to have to call a $75 bet on the turn, to win a total of $224, with only a flush draw. Hence we're not getting the correct odds, and its a bad call. This is ignoring the fact that we might be up against a FH already, etc.

Villain isn't really deep enough for it to be an effective call on the flop, given the most likely outcome on the turn.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

You're wrong. Calling on the flop doesn't mean you have to call on the turn. I'm sure he only called because he picked up several extra outs, and the bet was small.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your initial raise seem a bit over the top with 5-high.

[/ QUOTE ]

pls stop posting and learn the game.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're wrong. Calling on the flop doesn't mean you have to call on the turn. I'm sure he only called because he picked up several extra outs, and the bet was small.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I agree with that, my point is why are we calling a pot sized bet on the flop with only a 25% chance to improve. Secondly if we don't improve, the most likely action won't let us call profitably on the turn on the draw we currently have.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

Becuase the implied odds make drawing to 25% quite profitable.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

Looking at the implied odds on the flop.

You have 8 outs to the flush. (8 because 1 is either in villains hand, or will make his full house if it comes, i.e. as results given a Kh comes). We can assume this without knowing results if we're sure we're up against an over pair, we won't know exactly which card will make the full, but one of them will.

That means we have to win on the next card, or as has been discussed chances are we can't continue. 8/47 outs = 17.02% chance of winning on the next card.

Lets ASSUME we are going to capture ALL of villains stack if we hit the next card (i.e. Implied odds best case). Villain has $124.80 left behind after he completes his flop action. That means we're calling $30 to win the pot (currently $39) plus his flop bet $30, plus his remaining stack, for a total of $193.80. 30/193.80 = 15.48% required to call.

Now admittedly this odds show that we have 1.54% edge on calling here, so its a very marginal call. But thats some big assumptions. Who's to say that if the Ah comes villain will stack off, change that one out and suddenly it turns a 1.54% call into a 0.60% mistake. Obviously these are very small percentages and the calling line is very close to the folding line, but I don't think its a good enough assumption to say we're going to capture all of villains stack every time enough to make this profitable.

My 2c at least, I know everyone here doesn't agree with me [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]

We're calling a PSB against someone who we are reasonably certain will not be slowing down on the turn as they have an overpair.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

How do we justify the odds to call here? Really think the implied odds are that high?


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you often post the answer to a question before asking it?

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

We're calling a PSB against someone who we are reasonably certain will not be slowing down on the turn as they have an overpair.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

How do we justify the odds to call here? Really think the implied odds are that high?


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you often post the answer to a question before asking it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are all your other 4000 posts this useless?

Sorry for trying to get some discussion going in SSNL, obviously its not the place for it.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
My 2c at least, I know everyone here doesn't agree with me [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with u [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Maybe I am a big nit (I think I am) but I don't want to play 45s against an fishy limp-RR (PF call is IMO first mistake)- this is always AA,KK - on the flop I don't call a PSB even if I know he will stack off with an Overpair in any Case - as Peleus said - if an Ace hits you maybe can't get more money in the pot and your call on the flop was bad. If he has QQ a K and an A would do the same - moreover I think this play is marginal and doesn't decide if your a big winner or a looser in this game.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

Since people in this thread can't do math:

Let's give hero 8 outs on the flop, he's about 17.8% to hit on the turn. Let's assume hero always has to fold the turn if he misses his draw, and always stacks villain when he hits one of his 8 outs.

82.2% of the time, hero loses $30 (his flop call) = -$24.66
17.8% of the time hero wins $193.8 ($39 pot on flop + villain's $30 bet + $124.80 that villain has behind) = $34.50

Total EV = $9.84

Seems like a pretty clear call, especially considering villain sometimes checks the turn, or we pick up more outs and can call the turn, or he doesn't bet enough on the turn.

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looking at the implied odds on the flop.

You have 8 outs to the flush. (8 because 1 is either in villains hand, or will make his full house if it comes, i.e. as results given a Kh comes). We can assume this without knowing results if we're sure we're up against an over pair, we won't know exactly which card will make the full, but one of them will.

That means we have to win on the next card, or as has been discussed chances are we can't continue. 8/47 outs = 17.02% chance of winning on the next card.

Lets ASSUME we are going to capture ALL of villains stack if we hit the next card (i.e. Implied odds best case). Villain has $124.80 left behind after he completes his flop action. That means we're calling $30 to win the pot (currently $39) plus his flop bet $30, plus his remaining stack, for a total of $193.80. 30/193.80 = 15.48% required to call.

Now admittedly this odds show that we have 1.54% edge on calling here, so its a very marginal call. But thats some big assumptions. Who's to say that if the Ah comes villain will stack off, change that one out and suddenly it turns a 1.54% call into a 0.60% mistake. Obviously these are very small percentages and the calling line is very close to the folding line, but I don't think its a good enough assumption to say we're going to capture all of villains stack every time enough to make this profitable.

My 2c at least, I know everyone here doesn't agree with me [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I did this once before but deleted it, cuz effed it up cuz I'm retarded. Im bored and suck at math so im making myself do it again. (its also late, so there is a good probability I effed it up again, and I prolly should have spent this time doing something productive like masturbating) This is the EV of the flop call assuming he always stacks off when we push and he has QQ+

there are 12 combos of KK and QQ (ill do AA in a minute cuz its a little dif) 6 with a heart and 6 without.

The ones without a heart we win $194 when we hit our flush and he misses his fullhouse on the river so,

(6/18)*(8/45)*(42/44)*($194) = $10.47

we lose $30 (our flop call) when we miss our flush, one time we lose $154 when we hit our flush but he hits his FH and we lose when we hit our flush but he rivers his FH, so

(6/18)*((36/45)*(-$30)+(1/45)*(-$154)+(8/45)*(2/44)*(-$154)) = -$9.56

When he has a heart in his hand we win when we hit our flush and he doesnt hit his Flush or Fullhouse redraws. Depending on the heart we hit on the turn, he wont have as many outs, because some cards give us a straight flush, so

(6/18)*((2/45)*(37/44)*($194)+(2/45)*(36/44)*($194)+(4/45)*(35/44)*(194)) = $9.34

and just like before, we lose 30 when we wiff the turn and lose 154 when we hit but he outdraws us, so

(6/18)*((37/45)*(-$30)+(2/45)*(7/44)*(-$154)+(2/45)*(8/44)*(-$154)*(4/45)*(9/44)*(-$154) = -$9.94

now when he has AA its slightly diff because the straight flush redraws are a little diff, but there are 6 combos of AA 3 with a heart 3 without. When he doesnt have a heart we win when we hit our turn card and he misses river, so

(3/18)*(8/45)*(42/44)*($194) = $5.49

and lose when we wiff or when we hit and he hits, or when we hit and he outdraws, so

(3/18)*((36/45)*(-$30)+(1/45)*(-$154)+(8/45)*(42/44)*(-$154) = -$4.77

and this is for the 3 combos when he has a heart and we win

(3/18)*(8/45)*(42/44)*($194) = $5.49

and for when we lose

(3/18)*((37/45)*(-$30)+(1/45)*(7/44)*(-$154)+(2/45)*(8/44)*(-$154)+(4/45)*(9/44)*(-$154)) = -$4.87

all that added together gives our flop call an EV of $2.16. And thats assuming he has QQ+. If you throw in AK or some retarded stuff its obviously going to go alot higher. So its clearly a +EV call

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

all your math is correct but do you always stack the fish if you hit and he doesn't imrpove to a FH ?

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

Re: i played this perfectly, right?

Yes

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your initial raise seem a bit over the top with 5-high.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you srsly suggesting 45s should never be played this way? or are you saying that it should be raised less than 50% of the time in optimal strategy?

Re: i played this perfectly, right?
 

Fold preflop heads up against a loose passive's LRR. The initial raise was fine.