1/2 NL winrates?
 

I searched for this, but don't see anything anywhere on expected winrate at live 1/2NL even though I'm sure it's been debated before. I've pretty much stopped playing online due to the difficulty of moving $ around and the death of bonuses. Would $15 per hour after accounting for rake, tips, etc be a reasonable target for 1/2NL or is that abit too high? I've never played live, but there are a couple casinos nearby that I'd like to try out if it's worth my while.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

What is the min, max, and average buyin of the game at the casinos near you? This will have a big impact on your winrate.

Before seeing those numbers, I can say that $15/hr should be attainable, what were your online winrates at various limits? This can also help in finding a target number for you.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

8bb/h is sustainable, but you need to be the best player at the table and play at a casino that doenst rake more than 4$ per pot and play pretty fast (at very least 40 hands / h)

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

We have alot of casinos in the city. Buy ins range from 200, 500 and even 1000 at one place. My NL experience is limited to a few thousand hands as I played pretty much limit online. I'm not interested in playing limit live as I understand it's pretty much dead at this point.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

1000 buy in for 1/2 NL? I'm guessing that raises of $25-$40 preflop are common.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

[ QUOTE ]
We have alot of casinos in the city. Buy ins range from 200, 500 and even 1000 at one place. My NL experience is limited to a few thousand hands as I played pretty much limit online. I'm not interested in playing limit live as I understand it's pretty much dead at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

limit isnt dead live, online the games have dried up considerably, but live is still full of idiots.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

If you've only played a few thousand hands then you need to worry about what is attainable for you and not what is attainable for the best players.

99,932 and counting

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

[ QUOTE ]
We have alot of casinos in the city. Buy ins range from 200, 500 and even 1000 at one place. My NL experience is limited to a few thousand hands as I played pretty much limit online. I'm not interested in playing limit live as I understand it's pretty much dead at this point.

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I had no idea places had $1000 buy ins for 1/2NL. Do people buy in for that amount? I think you could make a very decent amount this deep. Seriously, I'm drooling a bit.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

[ QUOTE ]
8bb/h is sustainable, but you need to be the best player at the table and play at a casino that doenst rake more than 4$ per pot and play pretty fast (at very least 40 hands / h)

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I wouldn't drive 35 minutes one way to a casino 3 times a week if I was only making $16/hr. Over the past approximately 90 hours I have sustained about $80/hr... I am still trying to figure out if the other players are just that bad, I am just that good, or I have been that lucky...I think it is a combo of all the above. Won 12 out of last 15 sessions. 1 loss I felt like throwing chips around and having fun so I got drunk and did just that, haha. Another loss I played awful (and laughed about it) after a big weekend with a tournament cash. The 3rd loss came from a huge pot where myself and the villain both back doored a flush, me with the second nuts, him with the nuts, neither put the other on the flush the way the hand was played.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

[ QUOTE ]
All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

1/2 NL and its not even close... moreso with those juicy 500 and 1000 buyin games, that is pretty awesome to have those at your disposal... The more I think about it, the average stack is the question I should have also asked. I think a winrate equal to 8-10% of the average stack per hour is attainable by anyone who isnt an idiot monkey, dont even need to be the best at the table

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

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1/2 NL and its not even close... moreso with those juicy 500 and 1000 buyin games, that is pretty awesome to have those at your disposal... The more I think about it, the average stack is the question I should have also asked. I think a winrate equal to 8-10% of the average stack per hour is attainable by anyone who isnt an idiot monkey, dont even need to be the best at the table

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

3/6 limit is a card catching contest. You have to catch cards & hope your hand outruns the other 9 idiots chasing you all the way to the river. There's no strategy or hand reading. It's no foldem holdem.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

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1/2 NL and its not even close... moreso with those juicy 500 and 1000 buyin games, that is pretty awesome to have those at your disposal... The more I think about it, the average stack is the question I should have also asked. I think a winrate equal to 8-10% of the average stack per hour is attainable by anyone who isnt an idiot monkey, dont even need to be the best at the table

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Agreed.

3/6 limit is a card catching contest. You have to catch cards & hope your hand outruns the other 9 idiots chasing you all the way to the river. There's no strategy or hand reading. It's no foldem holdem.

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I refer you to the small stakes limit forum. Reading some threads on 3.6 will do you well.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

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1/2 NL and its not even close... moreso with those juicy 500 and 1000 buyin games, that is pretty awesome to have those at your disposal... The more I think about it, the average stack is the question I should have also asked. I think a winrate equal to 8-10% of the average stack per hour is attainable by anyone who isnt an idiot monkey, dont even need to be the best at the table

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Agreed.

3/6 limit is a card catching contest. You have to catch cards & hope your hand outruns the other 9 idiots chasing you all the way to the river. There's no strategy or hand reading. It's no foldem holdem.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say this like its a bad thing...

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I had no idea places had $1000 buy ins for 1/2NL. Do people buy in for that amount? I think you could make a very decent amount this deep. Seriously, I'm drooling a bit.


[/ QUOTE ] Gold Strike in Tunica has no cap on their 1-2 game. It's not uncommon to see 20k on the felt.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

I sustain a $40/hr winrate at $1-2NL with a $200 buy-in. Next week we shall see what I can do at $1-3NL Caesar's $500 buy-in. I must say though, I well outclass the tables I play at.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I sustain a $40/hr winrate at $1-2NL with a $200 buy-in. Next week we shall see what I can do at $1-3NL Caesar's $500 buy-in. I must say though, I well outclass the tables I play at.

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Sustain over what sample size? I can't imagine it's even remotely close to an adequate sample size, because if it was and you really were making a small blind per hand, then you would have moved up to 2-5 already -- unless you bought a faberge egg collection with your bankroll or something.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

90 hours is a pretty small sample size. When your running good it can make your opponent look really bad. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that they are horrible [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

With a $200 buy-in and some mediocre action $15ph should be attainable assuming that the rake is reasonable ($4 cap) and you are toking reasonable amounts. If you tip $5-10 every hand you will probably lose in the long but don’t stiff our hard working dealers. The amount you should expect to make really depends on the stack sizes, your stack, and the action and the game. If people are making huge raises preflop with deep stacks, this will be a very big game even though the blinds are $1/2. I recommend reading professional no-limit holdem and no limit hold’em theory and practice if you want to grind away at $1/2.

Good luck and have fun,
Paul

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 NL and its not even close... moreso with those juicy 500 and 1000 buyin games, that is pretty awesome to have those at your disposal... The more I think about it, the average stack is the question I should have also asked. I think a winrate equal to 8-10% of the average stack per hour is attainable by anyone who isnt an idiot monkey, dont even need to be the best at the table

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Do you really think that a 1/2 game with $1K stacks is going to be soft enough to beat for $80-100/hr? I think you're going to see some players who would be at 2/5 or 5/10 pretty frequently in a big 1/2 game. Particularly for a new player, a game this big could very easily be a disaster.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

it depends how bad your competition is. i have maintained $25/hr at 1/2 nl but it is against awful players

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

1/2 NL and its not even close... moreso with those juicy 500 and 1000 buyin games, that is pretty awesome to have those at your disposal... The more I think about it, the average stack is the question I should have also asked. I think a winrate equal to 8-10% of the average stack per hour is attainable by anyone who isnt an idiot monkey, dont even need to be the best at the table

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. at a full ring game (9+) and stacks of 300+, you should be able to make 25+/hour. very solid players can easily clear 40.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

1/2 NL and its not even close... moreso with those juicy 500 and 1000 buyin games, that is pretty awesome to have those at your disposal... The more I think about it, the average stack is the question I should have also asked. I think a winrate equal to 8-10% of the average stack per hour is attainable by anyone who isnt an idiot monkey, dont even need to be the best at the table

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

3/6 limit is a card catching contest. You have to catch cards & hope your hand outruns the other 9 idiots chasing you all the way to the river. There's no strategy or hand reading. It's no foldem holdem.

[/ QUOTE ]

with the introduction of NL live over the last 3 years, limit games have become somewhat tighter. good limit players still have an advantage in the game, but nowhere the advantage of NL players

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

1/2NL by far.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

The shame here is all of the newer players that are going to see this thread, and then get down on their game when they're not making $25/hour playing 1/2 live

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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I wouldn't drive 35 minutes one way to a casino 3 times a week if I was only making $16/hr. Over the past approximately 90 hours I have sustained about $80/hr

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LOL, you dont even know the definition of sustain yet. Come back to this forum and report your results when you hit 3,000 hours. Even then you haven't come close to determining your true winrate.

as a mod sometimes I wonder if we should lock or move these 1/2 NL winrate threads, they tend to be filled with pipedreams and inaccuracies.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

1/2 NL and its not even close... moreso with those juicy 500 and 1000 buyin games, that is pretty awesome to have those at your disposal... The more I think about it, the average stack is the question I should have also asked. I think a winrate equal to 8-10% of the average stack per hour is attainable by anyone who isnt an idiot monkey, dont even need to be the best at the table

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

3/6 limit is a card catching contest. You have to catch cards & hope your hand outruns the other 9 idiots chasing you all the way to the river. There's no strategy or hand reading. It's no foldem holdem.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say this like its a bad thing...

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dont you think this can be a bad thing. if you cant get anyone off a hand then it is a card catching contest. welcome to playing 9/4 ubernit style. i feel this way alot when im playing 1-2.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

1/2 NL and its not even close... moreso with those juicy 500 and 1000 buyin games, that is pretty awesome to have those at your disposal... The more I think about it, the average stack is the question I should have also asked. I think a winrate equal to 8-10% of the average stack per hour is attainable by anyone who isnt an idiot monkey, dont even need to be the best at the table

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

3/6 limit is a card catching contest. You have to catch cards & hope your hand outruns the other 9 idiots chasing you all the way to the river. There's no strategy or hand reading. It's no foldem holdem.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say this like its a bad thing...

[/ QUOTE ]


dont you think this can be a bad thing. if you cant get anyone off a hand then it is a card catching contest. welcome to playing 9/4 ubernit style. i feel this way alot when im playing 1-2.

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Sure, it can be bad when you experience the painful part of variance. But its pretty [censored] sweet when you experience the fun part of variance. And in the end people making lots of mistakes = awesome.

Edit: Look at a simple case where everybody every time stays to the river. All things being equal we break even (minus rake).

BUT, since we have control over the money that goes into the pot (by betting) when we have a strong hand we make more money because we make the other people pay to see the river. When we have a weak hand we fold preflop and don't pay anything. Therefore we make more with our strong hands, we lose less with our weak hands, and in the end we make more then the other players.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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I'm not interested in playing limit live as I understand it's pretty much dead at this point.

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LOL. Live limit is super profitable in Vegas. And also California, I'm told.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

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1/2 NL plays bigger than 3/6 limit, so there's a rake problem at 3/6. Also, the worst NL players are playing 1/2 and so they tend to make very big mistakes occasionally. It's not possible to make a very big mistake at 3/6 limit.

However playing games like limit 8/16, 10/20 and 15/30 are going to be as profitible or more profitable than some 1/2 NL games. You can probably find some 1/2 NL games that are more profitable than the limit games too though. Very table dependent.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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3/6 limit is a card catching contest. You have to catch cards & hope your hand outruns the other 9 idiots chasing you all the way to the river. There's no strategy...

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Oh brother.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

1/2 NL and its not even close... moreso with those juicy 500 and 1000 buyin games, that is pretty awesome to have those at your disposal... The more I think about it, the average stack is the question I should have also asked. I think a winrate equal to 8-10% of the average stack per hour is attainable by anyone who isnt an idiot monkey, dont even need to be the best at the table

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

3/6 limit is a card catching contest. You have to catch cards & hope your hand outruns the other 9 idiots chasing you all the way to the river. There's no strategy or hand reading. It's no foldem holdem.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say this like its a bad thing...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it's not if you can stand the variance & not go on tilt.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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If you tip $5-10 every hand you will probably lose in the long but don’t stiff our hard working dealers.

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What the freak are you freaking talking about? You don't tip $5-10 if you want to make money. You tip $1, maybe an extra buck or 2 here and there for something special. Anyone who's playing seriously and is tipping $5-10 is insane. The only players who do that are whales trying to impress someone or drunk tourists who are feeling generous because the tip looks small compared to the pot.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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3/6 limit is a card catching contest. You have to catch cards & hope your hand outruns the other 9 idiots chasing you all the way to the river. There's no strategy or hand reading. It's no foldem holdem.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say this like its a bad thing...

[/ QUOTE ]


dont you think this can be a bad thing. if you cant get anyone off a hand then it is a card catching contest. welcome to playing 9/4 ubernit style. i feel this way alot when im playing 1-2.

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No, it's a really really good thing. If all the 30/60 players played this way I'd be rich just going to Vegas once a month. It's a "card catching contest" in the sense that you have to show down good hands, but that is not at all the same thing as saying there's no skill or strategy. A good player who understands poker theory will crush that game, and a bad player will lose all his chipses. That is not what most people think of as a card catching game where luck rules and you can't beat the rake long term.

Geez, some of you guys crack me up.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

For what it's worth I'm $26/hour for the last two years, $39/hour for the last 4.5 months at ridiculous Florida dog track 1-2NL.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

FWIW, in my experience, in the northeast winrates for 1-2 are slightly less than 10-20 limit assuming you play both games very well.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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All things being equal, would one make more at 3/6 limit or 1/2NL?

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1/2NL by far.

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I agree, 1/2, but if your a beginner, and a bit gun shy of losing your roll, 3/6limit is a very safe choice. Limit and No limit require different skill sets though, a topic which you can find ample threads about.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

1/2NL is more like 5/10Limit. Actually, i used to play in a 5/10 limit game where 7-9 people saw the flop in a reraised pot, never saw that in a 1-2NLgame.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

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1/2NL is more like 5/10Limit. Actually, i used to play in a 5/10 limit game where 7-9 people saw the flop in a reraised pot, never saw that in a 1-2NLgame.

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You would if the raises were equivalent - raising to $4 and then to $6.

Re: 1/2 NL winrates?
 

over my 20(about 180hrs) sessions at 300max ($12/hour time charge) in biloxi I'm at about $20/hr. I've only had one losing session and my guess is I'm running decent. I would guess $10-15 or so is sustainable. the play is exceptionally bad, so maybe more is sustainable.

too bad it costs me about $40 in gas and 2.5 hour round trip or I'd play much more.