FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

FullTiltPoker Game #4144320180: FTOPS Event #7 (30642027), Table 407 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:36:11 ET - 2007/11/11
Seat 1: Samantonio (1,995)
Seat 2: ellis19 (3,070)
Seat 3: susiemac (3,060)
Seat 4: xsizzurpx (5,060)
Seat 5: jocelyne1 (3,480)
Seat 6: Grazza No1 (3,980)
Seat 7: sofia24 (3,385)
Seat 8: Hagamannen (2,820)
Seat 9: pretty work 007 (3,435)
pretty work 007 posts the small blind of 25
Samantonio posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to xsizzurpx [Js Jh]
ellis19 folds
susiemac folds
xsizzurpx raises to 150
jocelyne1 folds
Grazza No1 folds
sofia24 calls 150
Hagamannen folds
pretty work 007 folds
Samantonio folds
*** FLOP *** [Jd 2c Kc]
xsizzurpx has 15 seconds left to act
xsizzurpx bets 300
sofia24 has 15 seconds left to act
sofia24 calls 300
*** TURN *** [Jd 2c Kc] [Td]
xsizzurpx has 15 seconds left to act
xsizzurpx bets 700
sofia24 calls 700
jocelyne1 has been disconnected
*** RIVER *** [Jd 2c Kc Td] [Qh]
xsizzurpx checks
jocelyne1 has reconnected
sofia24 bets 2,235, and is all in
xsizzurpx has 15 seconds left to act
xsizzurpx has requested TIME
xsizzurpx folds
Uncalled bet of 2,235 returned to sofia24
sofia24 mucks
sofia24 wins the pot (2,375)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,375 | Rake 0
Board: [Jd 2c Kc Td Qh]
Seat 1: Samantonio (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: ellis19 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: susiemac didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: xsizzurpx folded on the River
Seat 5: jocelyne1 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Grazza No1 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: sofia24 collected (2,375), mucked
Seat 8: Hagamannen (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: pretty work 007 (small blind) folded before the Flop

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

looks fine

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

dont see any other line really

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

Played perfectly, as far as I can tell.

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

I might call river

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

[ QUOTE ]
I might call river

[/ QUOTE ]
OP asked me about this hand, thinking he should have made a blocking bet on the river. I said that a bet/folding was terrible, and I would check/call the river, but other people might see it differently.

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

Am I good here 1/3 of the time vs. an unknown (too early for reads)?

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

i will take a shot. raise more pre flop. i think this is really important. raise both for value and in an effort to define the hand ranges of opponents who might call, maybe 250. AA KK QQ JJ reraise, other pairs hope to flop set and call, AK AQ call, maybe KQ and QJ suited. Assume sofia24 calls. pot 575. effective stack 3135. nice flop - go for check raise. AK bets, club draw might bet (ie Qc10c)AQ takes free card hoping for non club 10, all other hands take free card. If AK bets, check raise to 1000 (2135 behind)on a 300 bet and 1500 (1635 behind) on a pot bet with intention of hesitating then pushing any turn. If flop goes check check and a ten or club falls, bet call turn, bet evaluate river - you might have to make crying call. bet pot if no 10 or club on turn - dont give good actual or implied odds if you can help it. try not to pay off a big river bet if club or 10 falls...

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

[ QUOTE ]
i will take a shot. raise more pre flop. i think this is really important. raise both for value and in an effort to define the hand ranges of opponents who might call, maybe 250. AA KK QQ JJ reraise, other pairs hope to flop set and call, AK AQ call, maybe KQ and QJ suited. Assume sofia24 calls. pot 575. effective stack 3135. nice flop - go for check raise. AK bets, club draw might bet (ie Qc10c)AQ takes free card hoping for non club 10, all other hands take free card. If AK bets, check raise to 1000 (2135 behind)on a 300 bet and 1500 (1635 behind) on a pot bet with intention of hesitating then pushing any turn. If flop goes check check and a ten or club falls, bet call turn, bet evaluate river - you might have to make crying call. bet pot if no 10 or club on turn - dont give good actual or implied odds if you can help it. try not to pay off a big river bet if club or 10 falls...

[/ QUOTE ]

no

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

just no?

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

[ QUOTE ]
just no?

[/ QUOTE ]

explaining every street is kind of a pain which is probably why zj just went with "no"

but preflop is a standard raise, varying your raise size depending on what your particular preflop hand is will typically lead to you being much easier to play against. this isn't true for all players and some very good/smart players will be able to get away with it, but not me.

on the flop going for a c/r is bad for a few reasons, first of which being balancing -- if we're going to bet a whiff here we should bet a set. actually first should probably have been value. quite simply, people will call with worse (draws, one pair hands), and we need to start building the pot. him checking behind the flop would really suck in terms of our ability to get our whole stack in by the river. so we should bet.

turn c/r isn't a terrible idea but people will take a lot of free cards on this sort of turn with their one pair+straight draw hands, so i think it's better to just bet.

on the river i just think that villian's mostly likely hand is going to be a straight that came from some A/broadway hand, or two pair, and an average player doesn't turn two pair into a bluff there.

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

i mean we may as well have K8 or whatever, all we bet is a busted club draw that probably doesn't have a broadway card (or a 9) in it (because most people suck and will take a showdown with club draws that improved).

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

I like a bet of 200 pre, but I'd do that with pretty much every hand I'm raising pre, but then I have a fairly tight raising range this early so it suits me...

I think check raise on thsi flop is real bad, a check looks liek you are planning on CRing so any draws are going to try and screw you over by taking a free card.

I actually think this was played pretty good, and I really cant call the river. An ace is definitely in you range, so villian would have to be really foolish to be bluffing here.

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

[ QUOTE ]
An ace is definitely in you range

[/ QUOTE ]

It is until you check the river. And then it's not. However, there are very few players out there who will both recognise and respond to that.

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i will take a shot. raise more pre flop. i think this is really important. raise both for value and in an effort to define the hand ranges of opponents who might call, maybe 250. AA KK QQ JJ reraise, other pairs hope to flop set and call, AK AQ call, maybe KQ and QJ suited. Assume sofia24 calls. pot 575. effective stack 3135. nice flop - go for check raise. AK bets, club draw might bet (ie Qc10c)AQ takes free card hoping for non club 10, all other hands take free card. If AK bets, check raise to 1000 (2135 behind)on a 300 bet and 1500 (1635 behind) on a pot bet with intention of hesitating then pushing any turn. If flop goes check check and a ten or club falls, bet call turn, bet evaluate river - you might have to make crying call. bet pot if no 10 or club on turn - dont give good actual or implied odds if you can help it. try not to pay off a big river bet if club or 10 falls...

[/ QUOTE ]

no

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. For example, 150 raise pre is standard. Also an attempted, C/R on the flop is not good given the board.

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

when ur this deep, why not limp preflop from EP. I play JJ-1010 more for set value when very deep and out of position. Thoughts?

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

[ QUOTE ]
when ur this deep, why not limp preflop from EP. I play JJ-1010 more for set value when very deep and out of position. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

no

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

just no?

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

[ QUOTE ]
just no?

[/ QUOTE ]

im not doing it this time

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

huh? doing what? explaining ur reasoning? that's novel

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

read the thread you clown

Re: FTOPS JJ flops a set...[censored] river
 

sorry dude..ty