could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

With all the overprinting of $ catching up and the US about to go into recession, is it possible for them to collapse like the USSR are did ? I mean they are pretty much bankrupt and that's why their borrowing so much $. What does the US have to fall back on other than selling military weapons? I mean they've shipped so many jobs overseas. Would they be less likely to collapse because they have privitized a lot of things unlike the USSR ? Did the USSR have inflation and overprinting of $ like the US does ?

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

i believe so. The U.S. has bitten off more than it can chew and we will soon see a depression that will make 1929 look like 1995. And we will party like its 1999.


i don't know what i'm talking about..

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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I mean they've shipped so many jobs overseas.

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Shipping jobs overseas is good for the economy, but that's a whole different topic.

We certainly could collapse. The monteary system is a scam. Socialized health care would be a big step towards implosion.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

Could, should and will.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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What does the US have to fall back on other than selling military weapons?

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Default/repudiation of foreign debt like Argentina?

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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Socialized health care would be a big step towards implosion.

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Amount spent on killing/potential to kill humanbeings by USA gov >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;amount spent on healing for its own citizens.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

Don't any of you socialized healthcare advocates realize that your medical breakthroughs are coming on the backs of my private health insurance dollars?

And no, I don't think we could collapse like the USSR did. Before that happened, I think the GOP would finally get off its collective asses and do something about the rapid degridation of the fabric of our society.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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...I think the GOP would finally get off its collective asses and do something about the rapid degridation of the fabric of our society.

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Please to elaborate on this "fabric degradation"!

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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...I think the GOP would finally get off its collective asses and do something about the rapid degridation of the fabric of our society.

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Please to elaborate on this "fabric degradation"!

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I'm gonna guess that he thinks somehow Buttsecks, pot smoke, and brown ppl cause a moral degradation.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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Amount spent on killing/potential to kill humanbeings by USA gov ~= amount spent on healing for its own citizens.

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FYP. Feel free to keep making [censored] up though.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

No way, countries don't just go and collapse. USSR collapsed because it was run by an extremely unnatural and inefficient regime, and was rotted out from the inside out. The country could no longer satisfy the basic needs of its population, which is kinda sucky for a communist government. The trouble that US is in, real and potential, does not even come close to USSR's troubles.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

"Don't any of you socialized healthcare advocates realize that your medical breakthroughs are coming on the backs of my private health insurance dollars?"


How efficent is this system exactly?

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No way, countries don't just go and collapse. USSR collapsed because it was run by an extremely unnatural and inefficient regime, and was rotted out from the inside out. The country could no longer satisfy the basic needs of its population, which is kinda sucky for a communist government. The trouble that US is in, real and potential, does not even come close to USSR's troubles.

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So if say perhaps,

1) Oil trading was shifted to euros vice $$$
then
2) China dumped its gazillionity Tbills back onto the market
then
3) $ plunges into rapid freefall
then
4) US econmy pluges into massive depression type recession
then
5) significant chunks of population can no longer afford to feed their families let alone their "lifestyle"
6) Government can longer even pay the military forces who now get to fight foreign wars whilst their families are starving and fighting back at home.


Yeah, pretty far fetched. Can't happen.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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i believe so. The U.S. has bitten off more than it can chew and we will soon see a depression that will make 1929 look like 1995. And we will party like its 1999.


i don't know what i'm talking about..

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1929 was just a market correction. The great depression (in terms of depth and length) had for more to do with the federal government [censored] around trying to "fix" things, not realizing that the UE numbers, price changes and bankruptcies were fixing the fundamental problems and needed to happen. We have tons of infrastructure, knowledge and available capital, the only way a massive 15 year depression occurs is if the government continues to interfere with the correction.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No way, countries don't just go and collapse. USSR collapsed because it was run by an extremely unnatural and inefficient regime, and was rotted out from the inside out. The country could no longer satisfy the basic needs of its population, which is kinda sucky for a communist government. The trouble that US is in, real and potential, does not even come close to USSR's troubles.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if say perhaps,

1) Oil trading was shifted to euros vice $$$
then
2) China dumped its gazillionity Tbills back onto the market
then
3) $ plunges into rapid freefall
then
4) US econmy pluges into massive depression type recession
then
5) significant chunks of population can no longer afford to feed their families let alone their "lifestyle"
6) Government can longer even pay the military forces who now get to fight foreign wars whilst their families are starving and fighting back at home.


Yeah, pretty far fetched. Can't happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I hate it, the FED is going to do its job, here. The deposits in the bank are guaranteed. There is going to be no capital market implosion. The only thing that is going to happen is that a bunch of money that got loaned out to shaky mortgages is going to get lost. The capital markets are very diverse and are not solely dependant on the mortgage sector.

As for your oil shifted to euros premise, the worlds largest oil producers are not going to put their security in the hands of the European Union. The European Union cannot possibly deliver on that promise. You have to think about the reason why oil is traded in dollars to begin with. It's because the US has the muscle to protect that arrangement. To think that Europe, after centuries of war and animosity between its member states is going to pull together and stand up to deliver on a promise like that is absurd.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No way, countries don't just go and collapse. USSR collapsed because it was run by an extremely unnatural and inefficient regime, and was rotted out from the inside out. The country could no longer satisfy the basic needs of its population, which is kinda sucky for a communist government. The trouble that US is in, real and potential, does not even come close to USSR's troubles.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if say perhaps,

1) Oil trading was shifted to euros vice $$$
then
2) China dumped its gazillionity Tbills back onto the market
then
3) $ plunges into rapid freefall
then
4) US econmy pluges into massive depression type recession
then
5) significant chunks of population can no longer afford to feed their families let alone their "lifestyle"
6) Government can longer even pay the military forces who now get to fight foreign wars whilst their families are starving and fighting back at home.


Yeah, pretty far fetched. Can't happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I hate it, the FED is going to do its job, here. The deposits in the bank are guaranteed. There is going to be no capital market implosion. The only thing that is going to happen is that a bunch of money that got loaned out to shaky mortgages is going to get lost. The capital markets are very diverse and are not solely dependant on the mortgage sector.

As for your oil shifted to euros premise, the worlds largest oil producers are not going to put their security in the hands of the European Union. The European Union cannot possibly deliver on that promise. You have to think about the reason why oil is traded in dollars to begin with. It's because the US has the muscle to protect that arrangement. To think that Europe, after centuries of war and animosity between its member states is going to pull together and stand up to deliver on a promise like that is absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so certain about the FED. They just cut rates twice (printing more money) with the $ at longtime lows. They are feeding the devaluation of the currency instead of actally stabalizing it. The gubment continues to spend more and more and more of imaginary money it does not have racking up enormous debt.

It will only take a few crisis of confidence for a snowball effect.

As for muscle to back up the promise, what happens when they can no longer afford to pay the people who man that muscle in anything other than a hyperinflating currency? Do you think they are going to stick around?

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No way, countries don't just go and collapse. USSR collapsed because it was run by an extremely unnatural and inefficient regime, and was rotted out from the inside out. The country could no longer satisfy the basic needs of its population, which is kinda sucky for a communist government. The trouble that US is in, real and potential, does not even come close to USSR's troubles.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if say perhaps,

1) Oil trading was shifted to euros vice $$$
then
2) China dumped its gazillionity Tbills back onto the market
then
3) $ plunges into rapid freefall
then
4) US econmy pluges into massive depression type recession
then
5) significant chunks of population can no longer afford to feed their families let alone their "lifestyle"
6) Government can longer even pay the military forces who now get to fight foreign wars whilst their families are starving and fighting back at home.


Yeah, pretty far fetched. Can't happen.

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I agree with your last statement. USSR fell apart for many more reasons than just currency collapse. US is on a much more fundamentally sound ground than USSR ever was.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

No chance of US collapsing...but the recession will be greater then the 30's that everyone will agree. It is now time for Americans to realize they aren't this great Super power and start practicing what they preach. "Buy American made" to start....most of the people that are critical of what is happening shop at stores like Walmart which based on it's imports from China would make it the 9th largest country buying from there if it where a country. Americans have to start investing in themselves if they want to survive. In Canada where I am from we have laws to protect over saturation and keep a Canadian content provision. I can tell you that myself like many other Canadians are feasting on the bargains in the property market in the excited states. I just bought waterfront 1.5 acres in northern California for 1/2 of the last purchase price. This is what happens when Americans think 0 down and blended 40yr mortgages with 3-5yr teaser rates are a good idea....my 5 yr old could have figured that scenario wasn't good.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

lolol @ this thread

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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In Canada where I am from we have laws to protect over saturation and keep a Canadian content provision.

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What are you talking about? All the shows on CBC that no one watches?

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No chance of US collapsing...but the recession will be greater then the 30's that everyone will agree. It is now time for Americans to realize they aren't this great Super power and start practicing what they preach. "Buy American made" to start....most of the people that are critical of what is happening shop at stores like Walmart which based on it's imports from China would make it the 9th largest country buying from there if it where a country. Americans have to start investing in themselves if they want to survive. In Canada where I am from we have laws to protect over saturation and keep a Canadian content provision. I can tell you that myself like many other Canadians are feasting on the bargains in the property market in the excited states. I just bought waterfront 1.5 acres in northern California for 1/2 of the last purchase price. This is what happens when Americans think 0 down and blended 40yr mortgages with 3-5yr teaser rates are a good idea....my 5 yr old could have figured that scenario wasn't good.

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Yeah, protectionism, that's what we need...

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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Socialized health care would be a big step towards implosion.

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Amount spent on killing/potential to kill humanbeings by USA gov >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;amount spent on healing for its own citizens.

[/ QUOTE ]

And for universal health care you'd have to take the current health care budget, add the current military budget and multiply it by like 5.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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Don't any of you socialized healthcare advocates realize that your medical breakthroughs are coming on the backs of my private health insurance dollars?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you realize that these people want the government to control all medical research as well?

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No chance of US collapsing...but the recession will be greater then the 30's that everyone will agree. It is now time for Americans to realize they aren't this great Super power and start practicing what they preach. "Buy American made" to start....most of the people that are critical of what is happening shop at stores like Walmart which based on it's imports from China would make it the 9th largest country buying from there if it where a country. Americans have to start investing in themselves if they want to survive. In Canada where I am from we have laws to protect over saturation and keep a Canadian content provision. I can tell you that myself like many other Canadians are feasting on the bargains in the property market in the excited states. I just bought waterfront 1.5 acres in northern California for 1/2 of the last purchase price. This is what happens when Americans think 0 down and blended 40yr mortgages with 3-5yr teaser rates are a good idea....my 5 yr old could have figured that scenario wasn't good.

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This couldn't be more wrong. People need to realize that our "power" is not based on some intangible GREATNESS or VISION that you can fiddle around with and control, and get back to the policies that worked so well for so long. Protectionism is the wrong direction and would make things much worse.

You can't just magically force economic prosperity by deciding who people are allowed to trade with. You have to learn to keep your grubby hands to yourself and let it happen.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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They just cut rates twice (printing more money) with the $ at longtime lows.

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Huh?

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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They just cut rates twice (printing more money) with the $ at longtime lows.

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Huh?

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The Fed just cut interest rates twice. Lowering the interest rate expands the money supply, since it encourages people to take out new loans, the money for which is created out of thin air. Since the dollar is already at historical lows internationally, this will only accelerate the dollar's plunge in value.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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They just cut rates twice (printing more money) with the $ at longtime lows.

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Huh?

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The Fed just cut interest rates twice. Lowering the interest rate expands the money supply, since it encourages people to take out new loans, the money for which is created out of thin air. Since the dollar is already at historical lows internationally, this will only accelerate the dollar's plunge in value.

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That's the conventional wisdom. David Malpass, the chief economimst at Bear Stearns, made the following comments in WSJ piece last Friday, italics added by me for emphasis:

Currency momentum can be broken. The dollar wouldn't be hard to strengthen if the Treasury included dollar weakness in G-7 discussions, and the Fed singled out dollar weakness as a concern. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke passed up an opportunity to change the dollar's direction in his testimony yesterday to Congress's Joint Economic Committee, noting mildly that the rise in the price of oil and other commodities, and weakness in the dollar, "were likely to increase overall inflation in the short run and, should inflation expectations become unmoored, had the potential to boost inflation in the longer run as well."

The Fed's in a good position if it wanted to strengthen the dollar. By cutting rates well before economic weakness, it has room to express stronger interest in the dollar's recovery even if that comes across as hawkish. A clearer preference for dollar strength would increase the demand for dollars, breaking the weak-dollar momentum without requiring currency intervention or rate hikes. As the dollar strengthens, capital would return to the U.S., providing extra liquidity and making the Fed's stimulus job easier.

I would think many who would like to see the value of the US $ increase would rewrite this statement as:

The Fed's in a good position if it wanted to strengthen the dollar. By raising rates well before economic weakness, it has room to express stronger interest in the dollar's recovery even if that comes across as hawkish.

I added italics to the word I changed. I guess I'll have to try to contact Malpass to see if he can clear this up.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

I think his point is that since the Fed has already made cuts to head off any economic weakness, they now have ample room to worry about the value of the dollar without having to simultaneously fight off an impending recession.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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I think his point is that since the Fed has already made cuts to head off any economic weakness, they now have ample room to worry about the value of the dollar without having to simultaneously fight off an impending recession.

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I agree but he specifically mentioned lowering interest rates further as a way to strengthen the dollar. I'm fairly certain that he's implying that the U.S. economy is growing "below potential" and that a stronger U.S. economy would eventually attract more foreign investment and thus strengthen the value of the US dollar because the demand for U.S. assets would increase substantially.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

I think we could. However, I think it's likely that after a colapse, we would be better off than Russia was since we have a culture of capitalism while they had a culture of socialism.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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With all the overprinting of $ catching up and the US about to go into recession, is it possible for them to collapse like the USSR are did ? I mean they are pretty much bankrupt and that's why their borrowing so much $. What does the US have to fall back on other than selling military weapons? I mean they've shipped so many jobs overseas. Would they be less likely to collapse because they have privitized a lot of things unlike the USSR ? Did the USSR have inflation and overprinting of $ like the US does ?

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According to the ticker tape run while watching Lou Dobbs tonight, $8,000,000,000.00 (that's billion, if you lost count of the zeros) worth of gift card went unclaimed in 2006.

I would think the bulk of that is major corp giving out gift cards to employees and the employees losing them. That's just my guess.

I don't think we'll run outta money so long as the fed keeps printing it and the prez institutes economic policy in secrecy.

Of course the dollar only has 4 cents in value left since the creation of the fed, and I don't know what happens when the dollar is worth -4 cents, except that a lot of retirees, who cannot raise arms against the Monster will be squeezed.

Go Bush! Go Bernake!!!! Come get mine!!

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No way, countries don't just go and collapse. USSR collapsed because it was run by an extremely unnatural and inefficient regime, and was rotted out from the inside out. The country could no longer satisfy the basic needs of its population, which is kinda sucky for a communist government. The trouble that US is in, real and potential, does not even come close to USSR's troubles.

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The U.S.S.R. went broke.

http://www.feb.ugent.be/algeco/ceris...ne_ES_2003.pdf

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
No way, countries don't just go and collapse. USSR collapsed because it was run by an extremely unnatural and inefficient regime, and was rotted out from the inside out. The country could no longer satisfy the basic needs of its population, which is kinda sucky for a communist government. The trouble that US is in, real and potential, does not even come close to USSR's troubles.

[/ QUOTE ]

The U.S.S.R. went broke.

http://www.feb.ugent.be/algeco/ceris...ne_ES_2003.pdf

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Yes, thank you for information, I didn't know that. USSR did go broke, but going broke is not nearly enough for the country to fall apart. USSR has plenty of other factors that caused it to fall apart.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not so certain about the FED. They just cut rates twice (printing more money) with the $ at longtime lows. They are feeding the devaluation of the currency instead of actally stabalizing it. The gubment continues to spend more and more and more of imaginary money it does not have racking up enormous debt.


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This point is debatable. I don't believe there is any conspiracy to wreck the US economy by the FED. I can't see them taking any action that will directly result in harming the country. After all, they are the biggest stake holders. See Adios' post below.

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As for muscle to back up the promise, what happens when they can no longer afford to pay the people who man that muscle in anything other than a hyperinflating currency? Do you think they are going to stick around?

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Let's see here, draft, involuntary extensions, recall, or maybe pay from the spoils (the least likely). You are forgetting the threat of the US prison system and coercive power the service does so enjoy using on its members.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

I wouldn't go so far as to say the FED is part of some conspiracy but they certainly are not afraid to knowingly flirt with danger and support political objectives at the expense of sound fiscal policy.

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Let's see here, draft, involuntary extensions, recall, or maybe pay from the spoils (the least likely). You are forgetting the threat of the US prison system and coercive power the service does so enjoy using on its members.

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"When the rule of law no longer governs, all they'll have left is tyranny, and I will not live under that yoke!"

All of the measures you suggest could be used to forcibly keep members in the armed services are more likely to repulse them even further.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

No country producing $13 trillion a year, with a large middle class, huge amounts of private capital, and strong international leadership in many industries is going bankrupt any time soon. Sorry.

The US might hit a bad recession for a few years but that's as nasty as it will get.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

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I wouldn't go so far as to say the FED is part of some conspiracy but they certainly are not afraid to knowingly flirt with danger and support political objectives at the expense of sound fiscal policy.


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This I cannot argue with.

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All of the measures you suggest could be used to forcibly keep members in the armed services are more likely to repulse them even further.



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All the things I mention already repulse members of the military and I can think of several instances of recall and involuntary extensions recently. What you point out has absolutely no bearing on the military's decision making process. They simply don't care. Something about the mission being more important than the lives of the men. I think you have to convert to that belief before they promote you beyond a certain level.

Re: could US collapse like the USSR did ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No country producing $13 trillion a year, with a large middle class, huge amounts of private capital, and strong international leadership in many industries is going bankrupt any time soon. Sorry.

The US might hit a bad recession for a few years but that's as nasty as it will get.

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You are not talking about a country with all that wealth, you are talking about corporations, of whom many of its shareholders are foreigners.

What the U.S.A. has: 50 trillion in obligations to its citizens and an approaching 10 trillion national debt.