Messing with an ABC TAG
 

Villan is 16/14.

This is usually a fold pre-flop, but against ABC opponents a small % of the time I call here with position and decent stacks.

I'm not sure about the turn or river play. Thoughts on both streets appreciated. River is obv a bluff, not a value bet.

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

SB ($210.75)
BB ($393.30)
UTG ($172)
MP ($400.80)
Hero ($201.75)
Button ($101.60)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $7</font>, Hero calls $7, Button calls $7, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($24) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $16</font>, Hero calls $16, Button calls $16.

Turn: ($72) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $50</font>, Button folds, MP calls $50.

River: ($172) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $128.75 (All-In)</font>,

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

Why? You have a lot of showdown value, I don't get it? Do you think he's calling with A9?

Edit - Turn is fine.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

calling pre would be so much better if you were BTN, but w/e.

turn i check behind i think. villain could well be playing pot control with a scare QQ+ (i don't think nits often Cbet this flop with mere overcards). BTN is a half-stack, so he could peel turn with pretty much anything, and you're getting a call from MP a good% of the time. you've also got a gutshot, so a free card will also give you the best hand sometimes.

River is pretty ugly. what are you repping? T9?

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

I really think your hand is good often enough..what did u think vill was holding for making this move? with JJ i´d like to thin he´s betting turn and cant see him getting this far with a random Q.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

pre is very meh... i like flop and turn, i check out river all day though.. i just dont think you are folding out much that you beat, except maybe JT or KT.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

I don't understand the river. What are you represeting? T9? A gutshot? A flopped straight on a board with two spades? King jack of spades? Just doesn't make much sense. What better hands is the villain going to fold? Your play looks exactly like a missed draw, which it is.

ps. I would prolly check turn

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

yea you do have showdown value, i dont understand, folding out better Ts?

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

he is folding every 1 pair hand and thats pretty much villains range.

also if villain plans on putting it in he usually does it himself. that means he wont check the river with sets.


I like the hand a lot.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

Why are people thinking our hand has showdown value?
There is basicaly one hand we beat for this villain to call the turn bet with (88, which is also unlikely coz we hold an 8 in our own hand too). I think he has JJ~AA like 90% of the time, which only QQ can call this river bet if he isn't a station. I like it

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

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Why are people thinking our hand has showdown value?
There is basicaly one hand we beat for this villain to call the turn bet with (88, which is also unlikely coz we hold an 8 in our own hand too). I think he has JJ~AA like 90% of the time, which only QQ can call this river bet if he isn't a station. I like it

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We also beat draws. I check behind on turn, betting here is too expert valuebluffing for me.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

I don't think its horrible. You fold out Tx nearly always, JJ often folds, and if he plays like this with KK/AA on the turn he may even fold them a decent amount of the time. Def a thin river bluff though.

I'm undecided on the turn, could go either way here.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

i much prefer a raise here, it shows alot of strength and our draw has some dodgy outs (spades), so we want to force out other draws.

as played, i think it is ok. depends on the TAG really. just trying to think what he would Cbet, then call the turn and whether he would call the river. it is hard to put him on a really strong hand, but some TAG's get worried with overpairs on dangerous boards like these and just try and check them down

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

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I don't understand the river. What are you represeting?

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J8, QsXs

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

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Why? You have a lot of showdown value, I don't get it? Do you think he's calling with A9?

Edit - Turn is fine.

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what does he show down agaisnt and win besides draws and A9s

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

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Why? You have a lot of showdown value, I don't get it? Do you think he's calling with A9?

Edit - Turn is fine.

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what does he show down agaisnt and win besides draws and A9s

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What better hands does he have that fold?

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

We def don't have SD value once he calls the turn. I don't really like betting that card though since he might not expect us to vb QJ, and spades missed. Spades/A/straight cards are good to bet river with.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

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he is folding every 1 pair hand and thats pretty much villains range.

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I wish I could find opponents like this

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

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Why? You have a lot of showdown value, I don't get it? Do you think he's calling with A9?

Edit - Turn is fine.

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what does he show down agaisnt and win besides draws and A9s

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What better hands does he have that fold?

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That is irrelevant to his question

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

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Why? You have a lot of showdown value, I don't get it? Do you think he's calling with A9?

Edit - Turn is fine.

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what does he show down agaisnt and win besides draws and A9s

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What better hands does he have that fold?

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That is irrelevant to his question

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I realize that, I word things wrong all the time. Like, what hands does he have? Overpairs, maybe better 10s, or draws and random 9s.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

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he is folding every 1 pair hand and thats pretty much villains range.

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I wish I could find opponents like this

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for real

I think you do have showdown value btw.

actually maybe not. I don't think you get folds that often vs his range really.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

This is not very convincing given that you didn't raise the flop. A tight ABC TAG is probably folding anyway, but I don't think this is that great a spot tbh.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

I like this alot more with no flush draw on the flop. With the flop having a FD, it's alot easier for him to call with a wider range.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

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he is folding every 1 pair hand and thats pretty much villains range.

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I wish I could find opponents like this

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Are the ABC TAG you playing against mostly station?

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

Thanks for the advice, I think it's a pretty marginal spot, and wanted some opinions.

Villan requested time - and timed down to the very last second. I was thinking JJ he must have. He called at last moment with QT. I'm convinced that he would have folded all 1 pair hands. I'm sure he thought that I had set / straight but was getting a good price to call with his hand.

Re: Messing with an ABC TAG
 

Wow villain either sucks or is a huge douchebag