NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

I have villain at 9/0/1 over 53 hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($26.87)
Button ($25.78)
SB ($86.15)
Hero ($24.65)
UTG ($16.14)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
1 fold</font>, MP calls $26.87 (All-In), 2 folds</font>, Hero calls $24.40 (All-In).

Flop: ($49.27) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: ($49.27) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: ($49.27) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $49.28

Am I suppose to call in this spot? Do you muck this against nit? The table was not crazy.. and villain has barely played any pots. Do we see JJ/AK enough to make this a call?

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

do you have any other reads besides him being a nit? is he steaming any from previous hands? anyway id fold

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

Villain is not steaming.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

call and take a note

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

AK? cant see sum1 trying to get value like that with KK or AA. probably bored and figures is a 50 50 if he gets called. what did he show?

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

dude the guy hasn't raised 1 hand in 50 odd hands.... IMO it's KK or AA here.. fold.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

call because it's party poker

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

It is a fold here. You have not invested much into the pot to jeopardize your stack. QQ is a good hand but if your up against AK it's still a coin flip. You could get out drawn if he did it with A-x or he could have KK and AA. Let the donk have the .25 cent this time and get him on later hands. Find a better spot to get all of your money in.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is a fold here. You have not invested much into the pot to jeopardize your stack. QQ is a good hand but if your up against AK it's still a coin flip. You could get out drawn if he did it with A-x or he could have KK and AA. Let the donk have the .25 cent this time and get him on later hands. Find a better spot to get all of your money in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because you can get outdrawn doesn't mean you have to fold. That is just terrible reasoning. If you are reasoning that way you should even fold AA because you can get outdrawn by 56s. The only hand you can be playing if you don't want to be outdrawn is 32. You have the worst hand without improving and you can only outdraw other people. If you only want to bet on certainties, go bet on which cast member of Lost will be the next one driving drunk.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

Fold.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

instacall
50 hands...

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

IMO I can not understand villain-s reasoning for pushing here w/ AA or KK. Probably just watched the WPT and figured that his mid PP is probably best with only 3 left after him.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

I am snap calling here. This is 50 hands so he could just be card dead upto that point. While Im sure the numbers are fairly accurate to the point that hes not a maniac, this could so easily be JJ, TT, or AK.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

Call because you have QQ and he is probably an idiot.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

Folllddddddddddddddddddd.
You have nothing invested here and its AA/KK about 90% of the time.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

[ QUOTE ]
Folllddddddddddddddddddd.
You have nothing invested here and its AA/KK about 90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Folllddddddddddddddddddd.
You have nothing invested here and its AA/KK about 90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

Anyone who folds this is retarded because his mostly likely hand is JJ or TT, and we are destroying that.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

Everybody who folds here based on the fact that we have nothing invested are playing cash games like they are tournaments. What does having nothing invested have to do with pushing our +EV situations, whether marginal or not?

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

I seriously don´t understand the `you have not invested anything´-argument. What does that have to do with your decision?

The only thing that changes when you have something invested is that you need a little less equity to break even on calling here, because your pot odds are better. But once your money is in the pot, it's not your money anymore.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

call... with a fist pump.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...2/fistpump.jpg

easy call i think. we could easily have him crushed.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

Hey Boz - is he doing what I think he is?

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

I had the exact same thing happen except I had KK. the villian had AK (it was an insta call), and I think that is his most likely holding here. pass the hand, no point in explosing yourself to that kind of variance.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

I would call but not like it here. If you had raised and he four bet shoved you I think the fold would be easy but for him to open with a shove is weird. But he hasnt raised at all. I think this is just as easily a hand like AK, but it depends on the table I suppose. Was the table (or any other the players, including yourself) hyper aggressive pre-flop?

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Boz - is he doing what I think he is?

[/ QUOTE ]

he is fist pumping, that is all. i have quite a good epeen one too which i will bring out at some point.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

Hmm, I'd like to believe that it's a scared AK/JJ that doesn't want to see a flop - but there are no preflop raisers or callers in front of him.

I probably fold.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

its 25nl and some guy is open shoving?
I call here all day everyday. I probably snap this with TT+ and AQ

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

Seems like theres an equal amount of ppl saying to fold and to call.

Anyways, this call was really borderline for me. I timed down to like 0.5 seconds before saying "fk it I call"

Results:

Villain shows AA.

It was just strange because villain won't get any value out of it unless up against KK/QQ/AK... and its extremely -ev in the long run. So I made a note on the nit.

He was actually at another table of mine, and did the same open shove with 250bb. lol

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

There was a regular nit how had like 9/1/1 stats that I played with how I noticed starting to open shove his stack with only AA, I was shocked how often he actually got called.

With QQ here I dump it without thinking about it.

If everyone is saying call here, then is open shoving with AA and KK not worth doing?

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

people who raise 1 or 2 percent of there hands it doesnt always mean that they are raising only AA/KK whatnot. Sometimes these guys like to limp those preflop to slowplay, or they never 3bet so they're open raising range is a little bigger then it appears or whatnot.

Even tho you say he is not tilting he could very easly be on another table or maybe he just has to go or something and wants to double up or bustoo.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

with only 50 hands how can we say that villain

i) hasn't simply been card dead for all this time and now has JJ or AK
ii) is really a nit
iii) wasn't distracted by other stuff (TV gf etc) while playing...

50 hands is little dat ato go on - it tends to suggest this is AA/KK but not much more than that.

Collect 1000 hands data telling you he has 9/1/1 stats and now we can draw conclusions...

also a call here IS +EV - so best play is to call. But all the peoples saying "snap call with fist pump" think a little.

His range here is JJ+ AK pretty much

overall we are a 52/48ish UNDERDOG if that range is right (add in a bluff once in a blue moon and we're a favourite again) but barely

Vs 1 hand in that range we are a big fav (JJ) vs 1 we split vs 2 we are a big dog and a "coinflip" 55/45 favourite v AK.

If he's weighting these hands (only doing this with black Jacks red Queens all Aces/Kings and all AK's) and not playing 100% of them - it's bad call. (we are ~40/60 dog)

So - if this is a +EV call it is JUST +EV.

There is no shame in folding these situations preflop until we gots a read. These flips for whole stacks are very BIG on variance. By all means snap call with double fistpump and jig dancing if you think you are 0.0000000001% ahead and you are emotionally equipped and bakrolled enough to handle the big swingy variance.

But if losing a stack to a misclicked K7o or to AA/KK will tilt you and make you play bad afterwards - or your bankroll is thin on the ground I fold here without thinking about it.

Personally I'd call just to see his cards - and then make a note.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

[ QUOTE ]
There was a regular nit how had like 9/1/1 stats that I played with how I noticed starting to open shove his stack with only AA, I was shocked how often he actually got called.

With QQ here I dump it without thinking about it.

If everyone is saying call here, then is open shoving with AA and KK not worth doing?

[/ QUOTE ]

it is not that often that when u have AA the otehr guy has QQ, KK, AK, maybe JJ. So, no, with 100bb stacks it is not ev maximizing.

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

small sample + no history = I call

Re: NL25 - Nit open shoves full stack... I have QQ
 

[ QUOTE ]
with only 50 hands how can we say that villain

i) hasn't simply been card dead for all this time and now has JJ or AK
ii) is really a nit
iii) wasn't distracted by other stuff (TV gf etc) while playing...

50 hands is little dat ato go on - it tends to suggest this is AA/KK but not much more than that.

Collect 1000 hands data telling you he has 9/1/1 stats and now we can draw conclusions...

also a call here IS +EV - so best play is to call. But all the peoples saying "snap call with fist pump" think a little.

His range here is JJ+ AK pretty much

overall we are a 52/48ish UNDERDOG if that range is right (add in a bluff once in a blue moon and we're a favourite again) but barely

Vs 1 hand in that range we are a big fav (JJ) vs 1 we split vs 2 we are a big dog and a "coinflip" 55/45 favourite v AK.

If he's weighting these hands (only doing this with black Jacks red Queens all Aces/Kings and all AK's) and not playing 100% of them - it's bad call. (we are ~40/60 dog)

So - if this is a +EV call it is JUST +EV.

There is no shame in folding these situations preflop until we gots a read. These flips for whole stacks are very BIG on variance. By all means snap call with double fistpump and jig dancing if you think you are 0.0000000001% ahead and you are emotionally equipped and bakrolled enough to handle the big swingy variance.

But if losing a stack to a misclicked K7o or to AA/KK will tilt you and make you play bad afterwards - or your bankroll is thin on the ground I fold here without thinking about it.

Personally I'd call just to see his cards - and then make a note.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a great post. I knew his range was JJ+, AK, but the fact that there could be other factors that alter his range made me call (he could be tilting, or just card dead and getting bored). I knew I only had JJ dominated and flipping or bad shape against his other range.. but I was thinking to myself... "I would be the biggest nit ever if I fold this.." But I guess others suggest folding would be the best option.

Bankroll could also be a reason for folding which is a good point you made. But I am well rolled for this and can handle the variance.

For ppl saying to fold, would you call if your bankroll was 30+ BI?