Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

New York Times article

It may require registration to read... not sure.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

Who is Mr. McLoughlin? I remember TT said he talked to some journalists?

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

Bingo.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

So don't talk about anything online... but to the NY times, that's ok?

such hypocrisy

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

All he talked about were things that have already happened, clubs that have come and gone. Nothing hypocritical about that. The rule is not to talk about clubs that are currently operating.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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So don't talk about anything online... but to the NY times, that's ok?

such hypocrisy

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He only discussed clubs that had been in the media already, this is consitant with the posting rules. I don't normally take up for TT, but he did apply the same rules to himself that he enforces on this board, no hypocracy in that.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

I don't know TT (at least, I don't think I do, although B down at ... told me I probably knew him by sight), but the article gives NY poker a nice favorable slant and every club mentioned has been closed. So I'd say he did a good job. It also describes Frank as the good guy he was, which is a good thing.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

TT - did you mention how much better off it'd be if it was legalized? Or did you try not to bring "politics" into it out of respect to Frank?

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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So don't talk about anything online... but to the NY times, that's ok?

such hypocrisy

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The policy has always been don't discuss news of these clubs until it has been reported in the mainstream press. TT has always been fair and consistent about this.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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TT - did you mention how much better off it'd be if it was legalized? Or did you try not to bring "politics" into it out of respect to Frank?

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I'd like to that the NY Times for changing the focus of their story, what started out as an expose on the seedy underground of poker became a fantastic article about what the NY poker community really is, its intrinsic value in society, and the hypocrisy of the legality of poker vs the illegality (is that a word) of renting a seat to play poker in a members-only club. It was a close decision because I value my anonymity but the potential good of this article far outweighs the risk for me in exposing who I am in the real world.

I spent 1.5 hours on the phone with the NY Times, we talked about everything in detail. I'd like to thank the author for agreeing to keep certain things off the record and understanding why it was best to not discuss things such as how security and membership work to assure that potential robbers don't learn the trade secrets from a newspaper article. I declined the request for a picture out of respect for Frank (in addition to my own privacy concerns), although the article moved away from him as the focus of the story I didn't feel it was right since he gave my life and I only gave my time.

Before and after speaking with the times I consulted with three former poker room operators so they knew what my intentions were since more details would be disclosed than ever before by someone in the know(nothing new for us of course, but lots of new stuff for the newspaper reading audience), and I got approval from Mason & Mat (thanks guys!) who were initially contacted by the Times (provided that I don't speak on behalf of 2+2 directly - only Mason can do that of course).

My only hope is that Frank's legacy can be used for good. The NY State legislature needs to revisit the laws governing poker and other games of skill suck as Chess and Backgammon. There needs to be a common code. If they believe poker and all other games of skill should be illegal then remove the loopholes that encourage underground poker clubs to exist. Other wise do the smart thing - legalize games of skill, regulate the playing of these games (including chess, that game can be ripe with hustlers and semi-legal activity), and tax the businesses where poker and other games of skill are played ala California.

Its funny because i have always been a naysayer when it comes to legalization in the state of NY, but thats mostly because there is no true lobby or news-backing. This article might be the first step if its read by the right people in Albany, I hope there will some chance for change in the future - it would be a fitting memorial in Frank's name.

PS: I was slightly misquoted about Frank, they left out that I hadn't played with him in 3 years but I don't think thats a big error since his name was not sullied in the slightest and they corrected the previous misunderstanding by letting the readers know that he has been a part of the NY Poker underground scene for decades.

PPS: The Bergen Record and ABCNEWS.com also wrote positive articles, but I am especially happy about the Times for obvious reasons.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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I don't know TT (at least, I don't think I do, although B down at ... told me I probably knew him by sight)

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I left NY last year, I live in Vegas now. Prior to that I had played in nearly every major underground room in NYC starting with NY Players Club and Playstation, I count quite a few of the operators as real life friends - we try our best to protect the games here even when there are no games to protect (such as now).

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

TT, now you have to get to a WPT final table so we can all say we know someone famous

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

It is a different slant than the sensationalistic BS we expect. But as for public perceptions I'm not optimistic. Half the public cant read, the other half doesnt read the Times. If you look at a couple of the mainstream message boards that covered this. One has a comment: "Who says gambling doesnt kill?" and another says it reminds him of a Sopranos episode. We've got a lot of work to do if we expect the outside world to acknowledge our game is a strategy-based game like chess, and a socially acceptable one, deserving of clubs and halls like Bridge or Pool.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

Igor - public perception doesn't matter as much as it seems, if we can persuade the suits in Albany that its a good issue to take up for their constituents and it wont adversely affect their ability to be re-elected then its a good thing. Legislators and politicos read the NY Times, IMHO the article was perfect for them.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't expect this to be the tipping point, but its the first article that has actually helped us by showing the truth. Perhaps the article will influence other writers... who knows.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

Skallagrim:

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that seems filled with contrasts: responsible adults slipping into clandestine locations like spies in the night,

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Skall, I submit that, until this negative connotation for live poker is dealt with, online poker is going to be a tough sell.



Can someone in NY (preferably a lawyer with UIC knowledge) explain how an illegal enterprise makes employees of said IE able to claim unemployment?

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The former employee of Playstation had worked at the club for three years, was covered by employee health insurance, paid taxes and was entitled to unemployment compensation after the club closed.

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Politicians all smoke crack, it seems....

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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Can someone in NY (preferably a lawyer with UIC knowledge) explain how an illegal enterprise makes employees of said IE able to claim unemployment?

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The former employee of Playstation had worked at the club for three years, was covered by employee health insurance, paid taxes and was entitled to unemployment compensation after the club closed.

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Politicians all smoke crack, it seems....

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I cannot speak for all the rooms because some operators may have changed the standard methods but Playstation paid taxes on all the revenue they bring in, paid their employees a salary (usually minimum wage because they operate on tips), offered health care benefits for the employees, and operated a legal businesses that cannot be closed down due to tax code regulations. This was something that the NY Times found very interesting, you can be an underground quasi-legal business such as a poker room and still be a responsible member of the business community. Some of the employees would be making minimum wage at best if it wasn't for the poker rooms, the community has taken many a person OFF of skid row; ironic isn't it?

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

Good article. Nice work, TT.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

"Ironic" isn't the word I'D use.....

There are several words that I'd use, but they're not printable.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

You came off well, TT. More importantly, poker did, too.

The article painted a picture of the underground scene as a community, and described the killing as an incident that shook that community. It did not portray that community as a threat to public safety in itself.

Arguably, the only disappointing thing about the article is that it made no attempt to compare poker to chess or other games of skill, or look into the reasons for its illegal status in the Empire State.

But this treatment of the robbery could lead to those kinds of articles.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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Arguably, the only disappointing thing about the article is that it made no attempt to compare poker to chess or other games of skill, or look into the reasons for its illegal status in the Empire State.

But this treatment of the robbery could lead to those kinds of articles.

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We spent a lot of time discussing skill games vs games of luck, I used Lotto and Horse Racing as examples of legalized activities that contain a much higher element of luck than skill which are regulated (and in the case of Lotto marketed to people who cannot afford to take great risks), I hope he decides to revisit the topic in a future article. I will remain in touch with the writer as the case proceeds.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

This is probably the best (for players & clubs) article the any major media outlet could have reasonably produced. Nice work keeping up the fight TT

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

nice read txs for the link

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

I am not as happy with the reporting of Jason Tsai. I was misquoted, my words are taken totally out of context. Since I deal with reporters and writers in my real-world profession I am very careful about what can and cannot be said, assuring that the quotes are accurate. Mr Tsai took liberty with my quotes, if I knew this would occur I would have declined the interview.


http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr...UVFeXk3MjIwNzMx

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr...UVFeXk3MjE3OTI4

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr...UVFeXk3MjE3NjYz

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr...UVFeXk3MjE3NDYz

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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This is probably the best (for players & clubs) article the any major media outlet could have reasonably produced. Nice work keeping up the fight TT

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they key thing is the article is fair. It shows all sides, not just our point of view. The author is a good reporter, he did not interject his own agenda or personal bias.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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I am not as happy with the reporting of Jason Tsai. I was misquoted, my words are taken totally out of context. Since I deal with reporters and writers in my real-world profession I am very careful about what can and cannot be said, assuring that the quotes are accurate. Mr Tsai took liberty with my quotes, if I knew this would occur I would have declined the interview.


http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr...UVFeXk3MjIwNzMx

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr...UVFeXk3MjE3OTI4

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr...UVFeXk3MjE3NjYz

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr...UVFeXk3MjE3NDYz

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What was misquoted?

well, except the first link, with the notice of your hostile takeover of 2+2 :P

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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well, except the first link, with the notice of your hostile takeover of 2+2 :P

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blip was a misquote, 2+2 was a misquote (I was very specific to say I am a volunteer moderator, they can interview Mason if they want a quote from 2+2 itself), and the article took a different tone than it was projected it would.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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blip was a misquote

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That is a real shame. The comment came off as somewhat callous, which did not match the tone of your statements in the NYT article.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

When he contacted me, I strongly suspected that the tone would be negative. He's a NJ reporter covering the death of a NJ man at a NYC poker game. The Rounders angle is much more interesting than the truth.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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I am not as happy with the reporting of Jason Tsai. I was misquoted, my words are taken totally out of context. Since I deal with reporters and writers in my real-world profession I am very careful about what can and cannot be said, assuring that the quotes are accurate. Mr Tsai took liberty with my quotes, if I knew this would occur I would have declined the interview.


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This is the New York Times we're talking about. At least you know how republicans feel [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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I am not as happy with the reporting of Jason Tsai. I was misquoted, my words are taken totally out of context. Since I deal with reporters and writers in my real-world profession I am very careful about what can and cannot be said, assuring that the quotes are accurate. Mr Tsai took liberty with my quotes, if I knew this would occur I would have declined the interview.


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This is the New York Times we're talking about. At least you know how republicans feel [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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read again, we aren't talking about the NY Times, Jason Tsai works for the Bergan Record.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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I am not as happy with the reporting of Jason Tsai. I was misquoted, my words are taken totally out of context. Since I deal with reporters and writers in my real-world profession I am very careful about what can and cannot be said, assuring that the quotes are accurate. Mr Tsai took liberty with my quotes, if I knew this would occur I would have declined the interview.


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This is the New York Times we're talking about. At least you know how republicans feel [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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You may be talking about the NYT, but *TT* wasn't.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

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blip was a misquote

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That is a real shame. The comment came off as somewhat callous, which did not match the tone of your statements in the NYT article.

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I used the word blip but it was used out of context. I was talking about compared to shootings at schools, at grocery stores, at nightclubs, or at any other cash based business. We were discussing how all cash businesses are risks.

NEWS UPDATE: The shooter has been caught, he is in jail. The Grand Jury will meet tomorrow. There accomplices are still at large. I know more, but I was asked to assure that this is all that is discussed until the Grand Jury meets.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker)
 

As a former reporter, I can say with certainty that when you agree to speak with a reporter you can't expect to know the slant of the finished story. You can ask, but once you give an interview it's out of your control. As a former player at PS and NYPC (and a couple of others), I thought the NYT reporter bought the "milk and cookies, just like granny's bridge club" angle a little too whole heartedly. That's one aspect of the clubs, but there is also the addicted gambler, the various criminal scum and assorted other elements that are always around public poker, legal or no. Sounds like the Bergen guy (or his editors) had a different spin.

Re: Start spreading the news... (NYC Poker) BREAKING NEWS
 

The New York Post reports one person was arrested several days ago in connection with the murder and robbery: New York Post Article.

I understand that this is a rapidly developing story...

Edit: I see someone else has started a new thread with this information... stand down.