1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

easy call??

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

yes easy call, even if its not a donk, people underestimate the power of being a 4:1 favourite. But this is the ONLY hand you go all in with early in a big, long tournament. If you have over 100BB's even KK isn't good enough.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

what if 2 or 3 guys allin ?? u call??

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
what if 2 or 3 guys allin ?? u call??

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf is the point of this post?

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

Yes, otherwise better play chess.

Anyhow - search the archives please, this question has already been answered a ton of times ...

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

I'm not folding AA pre-flop. I don't care if it's WSOP or not. In the end all that matters is how much money you won by playing poker all your life and this is all about gambling when odds are favorable and making the right move when odds are not favorable.

BTW, if you're talking about WSOPME than maybe i can fold because of prestige. Bacause prestige gives fold equity.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

Fold, your TOURNAMENT LIFE is at stake, wait until you have someone drawing dead before you go all in.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

you have the nuts pre...

fold? serious?

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

Fold. They may have sooted or connected cards, and while
you're a big favorite preflop, you'll only be like 30-40%
against the field.

Don't listen to all the hate, they aren't good enough to
fold AA preflop!!!ONEHUNDREDELEVEN!!!

-ZEN

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

I love you Zen. If you say fold then it's fold lol [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] there was a topic here about edges early in tournaments with greg raymer's posts. You can search it.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

Think of how many hands you could play after you fold! Definite fold. You can find a much better spot to put your chips in. Only fish put their tournament life on the line that early...above all else, survival is paramount - it's a tournament.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold, your TOURNAMENT LIFE is at stake, wait until you have someone drawing dead before you go all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT you saw what happened to IWEARGOOGLES when that fish couldnt fold AA

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

I thought we were talking heads up here...

if there are two people already in the pot all in... that DOES make a difference, but zen is right i don't think i'm gonna fold... maybe thats the gambler in me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I think it pretty much comes down to whether you want to triple up as a favorite or pick a better spot. I'm calling here expecting KK, QQ, or AK.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought we were talking heads up here...

if there are two people already in the pot all in... that DOES make a difference, ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 62.616% 61.33% 01.30% 16618610338 353271285.75 { AA }
Hand 1: 13.367% 13.10% 00.27% 3548820200 74246042.08 { TT+, AJs+, AQo+ }
Hand 2: 12.011% 11.20% 00.81% 3035310722 220242744.08 { TT+, AJs+, AQo+ }
Hand 3: 12.006% 11.19% 00.81% 3033473479 220612853.08 { TT+, AJs+, AQo+ }

Aah ... now I see what you mean: a 60% chance to quadruple is really much better than an 80% chance to just double up. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

oh cmon of course this is retarded

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
oh cmon of course this is retarded

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not just retarded, it's borderline lead paint chip buffet eaten by high voltage power lines next to a leaking nuclear reactor retarded.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

There was a thread in the past in which somebody advocated folding AA preflop in situations where every player before you was all-in with a deep stack.

We all lol'd

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

These situations are what good bankroll management is for; insta call.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

Even considering calling with AA when everyone else has gone in is awful -- it's absolutely horrific & you're almost certain to bust out. It's even -cEV:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 06.133% 01.39% 04.76% 227713 778695.63 { AA }
Hand 1: 06.132% 01.39% 04.76% 227608 778698.63 { AA }
Hand 2: 14.942% 14.97% 00.01% 2451103 847.13 { 7s6s }
Hand 3: 15.868% 15.90% 00.01% 2602963 847.13 { 9d8d }
Hand 4: 15.603% 15.63% 00.01% 2559605 847.13 { JcTc }
Hand 5: 13.219% 13.24% 00.01% 2168345 847.13 { 5h4h }
Hand 6: 11.655% 11.67% 00.01% 1911688 847.13 { 22 }
Hand 7: 16.447% 16.48% 00.01% 2698161 847.13 { KK }

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

Serious about that?! If so, this thread gets even worse ...

What should that demonstrate? How great is the probability that two players have AA????

Substitute the second AA against QQ and you´re a 20% favourite to 10x your stack.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

Not at all serious, messing around because these stupid ridiculous posts annoy me

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not at all serious, messing around because these stupid ridiculous posts annoy me

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

http://www.pocketfives.com/AF4C346C-...1A213B615.aspx

Recently i played a $550 buyin live tournament with an incredibly weak field of 61 players. It was comprised of wall street douches and real estate hot shots. I got into the game by meeting the vice president of the real estate company at the prestigious country club/ golf club i work at . I had dealt cards for their cash games at the club but was never able to play cause i was working. This really sucked because they were horrendous, just rich guys having fun, obvi nothing wrong with that but i was just praying to get involved. I had talked with this VP afterwards about poker and he was impressed by some points i made regarding the game and the blatant tells of his friends. He invited me to a tourny he was going to host and even though the buyin is out of my bankroll i could not pass on the opportunity.

So i get to this guys mansion and get the specs on the tourny 10k in chips blinds 25/50 20 min levels top 7 to cash, top 3 was 11k, 7k, 5k def my goal. Within first levels guys are bouncing quickly not understanding how many chips they have relative to blinds. Fast forward to 17 people left blinds at 1k/2k and i have about 55k. To my right are both chip leaders both over 80k and a guy that looks to have around same as me. One of the guys over 80 k was a player other CL was drunk and outdrawing big time. No one was stealing blinds and i managed to build my stack this way as well as doubling up with a set. The other table had barely any chips in play and i knew i had a shot to take it down.

Now the madness. 2nd position guy goes all in for about 20k, followed by drunk CL as he announces proudly im all in too (+80k), now the guy with about as many chips as me goes into the tank after about a min he says all in, to which the other big stack (good player) insta all ins. Every one is standing up laughing wondering what the hell is going on as everyone at the place gathers around the table. Im in the small blind and look down at A A and stop myself to think about the situation. i put the first guy on 99 or 1010 he had been getting beat on and i ruled out a big pair based on how fast he moved in as well as the fact that he didnt elect to raise or limp. The drunk guys hand range was very vast to me but for him to nonchalantly say all in i thought he had to have AK but i wouldnt be surprised to see AQ. Now the guy with as many chips as me i felt had a legitimate decision that at best involved JJ i didnt see him taking this long with QQ as he wasnt a great player. And there was no doubt in my mind that the only solid player had KK or the other 2 Aces.

Im thinking to myself is it possible to fold this? im the best player at the table i have almost 30bb's and 3/4 people that are all in in the hand could potentially knock me out! After about 2 min i fold convincing myself i can find a better spot than the situation offered. the cards are flipped over and my reads are pretty close. player 1 = 88, drunk maniac AK, player 3= 1010 (yuck), and the good player KK. the board finishes 10 J 5 6 2 and player 3 triples up i feel good about myself but should I? I end up making a good run at FT falling short in 4th for $3600 when my top 2 all in on flop is rivered by a flush. But i couldnt stop thinking about that hand and got mixed opinions from my friends.


Now i have no idea the math of this maybe someone can tell me assuming my reads are correct. Im just wondering everyones insight and if my logic makes any sense or if im just retarded and i should put them in 100% of time with AA

appreciate opinions Grave Danger

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

Wow that's awful. The reads are also fairly rediculous, putting a player on just 1 or 2 hands because of a preflop shove.

Assuming ranges fairly close to his reads however he has about 58% equity in a 4 way pot. Even if I put tighter ranges on it, including only AA for the last all in then he's never worse than ~33% equity 4 ways, and most of that is splitting with the other AA. If you think you can get it in better than that then you're obviously very deluded.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 58.283% 55.27% 03.01% 21631437828 1177794894.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 17.080% 14.77% 02.31% 5782210812 902130966.00 { KK+ }
Hand 2: 12.086% 11.79% 00.30% 4614142464 115778622.00 { JJ-99, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 3: 12.551% 11.76% 00.79% 4603040856 308847846.00 { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

How is this [censored] thread this long? I have hands I stu over for days and don't get this response.

Hey I know, how bout 8 players all go all in before us.. what do we do then?

If you ever fold AA preflop, it's not a sat, remove your man card and tear it in pieces, +EV folks, this is retarded.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Even considering calling with AA when everyone else has gone in is awful -- it's absolutely horrific & you're almost certain to bust out. It's even -cEV:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 06.133% 01.39% 04.76% 227713 778695.63 { AA }
Hand 1: 06.132% 01.39% 04.76% 227608 778698.63 { AA }
Hand 2: 14.942% 14.97% 00.01% 2451103 847.13 { 7s6s }
Hand 3: 15.868% 15.90% 00.01% 2602963 847.13 { 9d8d }
Hand 4: 15.603% 15.63% 00.01% 2559605 847.13 { JcTc }
Hand 5: 13.219% 13.24% 00.01% 2168345 847.13 { 5h4h }
Hand 6: 11.655% 11.67% 00.01% 1911688 847.13 { 22 }
Hand 7: 16.447% 16.48% 00.01% 2698161 847.13 { KK }

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol someone beat me to it... sorry, read title, flamed...

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]

Now i have no idea the math of this maybe someone can tell me assuming my reads are correct. Im just wondering everyones insight and if my logic makes any sense or if im just retarded and i should put them in 100% of time with AA

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm no way, you don't know the math... well lets see... there are 168 hands we're crushing, .5 hands we're tied with...

Throw that at a grade 3 math student in apples and bananas and see what they say.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

Wow, i really need to put those articles in the anthology if people are still going to ask questions like these.

I swear to God if anyone ever posts a hand here where they fold AA pre in a non satellite situation it's a perma ban. That threat is for your own good people.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even considering calling with AA when everyone else has gone in is awful -- it's absolutely horrific & you're almost certain to bust out. It's even -cEV:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 06.133% 01.39% 04.76% 227713 778695.63 { AA }
Hand 1: 06.132% 01.39% 04.76% 227608 778698.63 { AA }
Hand 2: 14.942% 14.97% 00.01% 2451103 847.13 { 7s6s }
Hand 3: 15.868% 15.90% 00.01% 2602963 847.13 { 9d8d }
Hand 4: 15.603% 15.63% 00.01% 2559605 847.13 { JcTc }
Hand 5: 13.219% 13.24% 00.01% 2168345 847.13 { 5h4h }
Hand 6: 11.655% 11.67% 00.01% 1911688 847.13 { 22 }
Hand 7: 16.447% 16.48% 00.01% 2698161 847.13 { KK }

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol someone beat me to it... sorry, read title, flamed...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just wrong. When do you EVER EVER know that one other person has AA who has gone in front of you? You don't. And if you don't know that this person has AA, then folding AA is wrong. Play against hand ranges people.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

sigh...that is all

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's not just retarded, it's borderline lead paint chip buffet eaten by high voltage power lines next to a leaking nuclear reactor retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

but, if you eat survive eating nuclear paint chips doesn't that make you superman???

i don't know who said this but i'm stealing their quote "don't fold AA pre ever, unless you don't like money"

i think this year Jamie Gold's mom was Day 1 chip leader w/ something like 105k. you quad up thru 3 people and you're halfway there.

the only spot i'd consider folding AA (and I have before) is on the money bubble when i'm facing elimination vs payday.

and if you're going to fold the BEST HAND in the game.... what hands are you really willing to play?

you're guaranteed to get on TV with this hand too.... so, if that's all you're at the WSOP for, make a big spectacle and some noise... jump up and down like hevad khan.... lure a cameraman over... and you'll be on tv like kate hudson's brother getting felted by farha's AA vs his A10 on A 10 10 flop.

and if you have the luxury of being at one of the few tables with hole card cams this early and Norman Chad sees you fold AA preflop, he will make so much fun of you that you will never be able to show your face near any casino, poker room, pool hall, or even a bingo hall!!! EVER!!!

and that is something you don't want.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
the only spot i'd consider folding AA (and I have before) is on the money bubble when i'm facing elimination vs payday.

[/ QUOTE ]

See that's the problem with these threads, statements like this help the new guys to think.. ohh maybe i better tighten up on the bubble... There are so many things wrong with that statement, I don't know where to begin. You will never be in a situation where folding AA on the bubble of a normal payout FO where it's +EV, $EV, +*&^%$^*&EV to fold AA, especially on the bubble, people are thinking like you and folding everything... if you punish them on the bubble like you should, you get looked up by pissed peoples by the time you pick up this hand...

P.S. man card please.

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

Depends...is it red aces...or black aces...gets confusing if it's one red, and one black...if the black one is a spade...or the red one is a heart...well...hmmmmmmm...

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]

See that's the problem with these threads, statements like this help the new guys to think.. ohh maybe i better tighten up on the bubble... There are so many things wrong with that statement,

[/ QUOTE ]

ok.. so EP raise, then reraise, all in shove, then the chip leader overcalls... then when one of the people might be eliminated making you be in the money instead of out in 61st when 60 pay and you're short (granted the cost/ benefit and possibility of 5 upping is totally thrown out the window... cuz against 4 pocket pairs, your chances of winning the hand are narrowed and who wants to flip when it means 61 and no money) ????

the whole point is "if you need the payout and are worried about buy in cost, you can fold (it's a play i'd be making if i satellited into the main event for $20 and one more person being out was the difference between 15k and $0).... if you don't care about the result or the money then call"

i didn't say that i make it a practice to fold AA PRE on the bubble..... but i have before..... and i am sure there will be 1 or more goofy situations that i am just not comfortable seeing when i have to do it again. sorry if this is an advanced play that comes up in rare spots... but if world champion poker players like action dan and doctor sklansky can write stories about times that it's not necessarily wrong to fold, then they must be wrong too according to your logic.


don't tell me that i'm telling people to tighten up on the bubble either...
all i did was site one specific example of a time that it might not be horrendously bad to fold them pre. which was certainly not like the first hand of the main event where you're trying to accumulate, as opposed to the bubble where you might be trying to just survive til a payday

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

This really depends, are the aces red or are they black?

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 01.133% 01.39% 04.76% 227713 778695.63 { AA }
Hand 1: 11.132% 01.39% 04.76% 227608 778698.63 { J5 }
Hand 2: 14.942% 14.97% 00.01% 2451103 847.13 { 7s6s }
Hand 3: 15.868% 15.90% 00.01% 2602963 847.13 { 9d8d }
Hand 4: 15.603% 15.63% 00.01% 2559605 847.13 { Skip, Draw Two }
Hand 5: 05.219% 13.24% 00.01% 2168345 847.13 { 5h4h }
Hand 6: 19.655% 11.67% 00.01% 1911688 847.13 { Joker, Joker }
Hand 7: 16.447% 16.48% 00.01% 2698161 847.13 { Rules, Coupon }


Guys, please stop arguing! AA is only 1% here!!

-ZEN

Re: 1st hand wsop. Some donk goes all in, u got AA. Do u call ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
This really depends, are the aces red or are they black?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you're using a 4 color deck... isn't it like the old adage for disarming a bomb...
"red you're dead, blue you're thru?"

so never play with red rockets... and spew yourself all over the wall