TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

Villain is AttackYouStack and he runs 24/20/4.5. We've both been playing long sessions and 3-betting each other a decent amount. No big confrontations though as I can recall. I'm running like 24/18 at this table. Thoughts on flop (bet v check) as well as the shove. Cheerio

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $272.80
BB: $60.15
UTG: $358.35
CO: $350.45
BTN: $176.40

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
BB calls $2, <font color="red">UTG raises to $8</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $34</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $26

Flop: ($70) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $47</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises to $124</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $238.80 and is All-In</font>

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

from your description i assume there is no history of 3-betting too light, making plays in rr pots and so on...

Despite the good odds you're getting on that shove, i dont really like it, cause i dont see villian having draws or making a play here often enough given he called a reraise utg. He is also never folding a split.
Calling is obv even worse though.
i'm too afraid to follow through on this thoughts...

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

I think you have to felt here.. Im not happy about it though.

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

i guess this is fine, but like it was said, not thrilled here

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

Does everyone like my flop bet?

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

standard, hope your intention was to induce.

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

i think the flop bet is good as long as you dont fold when it gets raised.. it can definitely lead to some meh spots like this but i think its well played.

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

Even without specific history, you gotta felt this.

If there's been a decent amount of 3-betting back and forth, villain could easily be calling preflop with more hands than usual intending to make a play on favorable flops. So a flush draw or pair + GS is well within his range here, because he has to think a ton of your range is folding to his raise if you've been c-betting a lot in 3b pots.

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

This really depends on how light he'll call your 3-bet in position. That is what you need the read on, because if he doesn't call light you beat nothing.

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does everyone like my flop bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, I'm not crazy about it. what are you tryin to get value from? I dont think he shows up with AJ or less here very often

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

I just felt like the flop was a bit too wet for me to check it to him. And yeah once I bet the flop if he raises I'm going with the hand.

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

betting flop is fine, you want to check more often than not though, definitely fold to his raise tough

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

Board: As Qh 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.032% 16.83% 14.21% 3498 2953.50 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 68.968% 54.76% 14.21% 11385 2953.50 { AA, QQ, AQs+, KsQs, KsJs, KsTs, QsJs, JsTs, AQo+ }

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

that range has to be wayyy too tight.. at least sometimes he has random spade hands, random air or possibly some gut shots or jack ten off for a double gutter..

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

This looks pretty standard, sorry you lost.

1 thing however that I noticed myself lately

when youre in a 3bet on the flop and you get raised, I ALWAYS seem to be behind, might sound kinda lame, but...anyone else feels like this too?


people just dont raise the flop in reraised pots with bluffs/marginal holdings at these lvles.

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

[ QUOTE ]

when youre in a 3bet on the flop and you get raised, I ALWAYS seem to be behind, might sound kinda lame, but...anyone else feels like this too?


people just dont raise the flop in reraised pots with bluffs/marginal holdings at these lvles.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have had at least 3 examples of otherwise in the last two days..

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

hmm k prolly just me being paranoia.

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
This looks pretty standard, sorry you lost.

1 thing however that I noticed myself lately

when youre in a 3bet on the flop and you get raised, I ALWAYS seem to be behind, might sound kinda lame, but...anyone else feels like this too?


people just dont raise the flop in reraised pots with bluffs/marginal holdings at these lvles.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely disagree

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
This looks pretty standard, sorry you lost.

1 thing however that I noticed myself lately

when youre in a 3bet on the flop and you get raised, I ALWAYS seem to be behind, might sound kinda lame, but...anyone else feels like this too?


people just dont raise the flop in reraised pots with bluffs/marginal holdings at these lvles.

[/ QUOTE ]

I won the hand. I figured the board was drawy enough that I had to bet and that's also the reason I had to shove. Wasn't fist-pumping as I did it though :P

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $272.80
BB: $60.15
UTG: $358.35
CO: $350.45
BTN: $176.40

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
BB calls $2, <font color="red">UTG raises to $8</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $34</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $26

Flop: ($70) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $47</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises to $124</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $238.80 and is All-In</font>, UTG calls $114.80

Turn: ($547.60) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($547.60) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $547.60 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a pair of Aces) and WON $544.60 (+$271.80 NET)
UTG showed T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a pair of Aces) and LOST (-$272.80 NET)

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

would be eaiser to felt if you didint 3b so much pf

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

NH

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
would be eaiser to felt if you didint 3b so much pf

[/ QUOTE ]

what???? this hand is standard.
from a game theory/balance standpoint you can NEVER b/f this hand. Also your flop bet is fine, since you will be firing air here alot, you gotta fire good hands too.

Now if you dont care about balancing and want to be super easy to play against, just check here always, you gain a little when villain bluffs, but you lose ALOT of bluffing equity later against observant regs.

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

when did i say it wasnt? just said id be happier felting if the pfr wasnt so big.

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

[ QUOTE ]
when did i say it wasnt? just said id be happier felting if the pfr wasnt so big.

[/ QUOTE ]

the more you put in pre the more tied you are to the pot postflop. say you rr to 75 preflop and this is the flop, you are never folding. say you minraised pre and this is the flop, stacking could be bad. thoughts?

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

i just think raising to 34 narrows his range pf, a normal raise to 24-28 makes it wider by a decent amount, although if thats his std raise size then perhaps not.


i get what you are saying, depending on a few things the pot size wont differ by a great amount if he raised slightly less, but ranges change more (less likely to mess around with junk). Whereas if he min-raised pot size would be considerably smaller and ranges considerably larger making it a completely different scenario.

Kinda jumbled, i suck at explaing stuff :/

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

bet / 3bet AI this board all day, yeah the Q sucks, if he won AQ vs AK fine it sucks move on, if you two are tangling and 3betting even semi light AJ/ATs are possible as well as broadway or even lower flush draws...

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

yeah i agree with US, i dont like pfrr sizing either. its like you're super scared to play oop or something (is what i get from that bet sizing, not saying you are).

Re: TPTK, RR\'ed pot semi-deep against solid reg
 

Villain had ATs, I don't really like his play. And yeah this deep this is my standard 3-bet size